Could you please expound on this statement? WHO was a single carrier when the request was filed?
Union elections and the RLA....POLL!
- Thread starter jalbalpa
- Start date
Could you please expound on this statement? WHO was a single carrier when the request was filed?
it is their responsibility filing! and when they do keep it in place!
the request must stay in place so the NMB can determine it is single carrier and set a date!
Luke..
seriously,
that comes across like an excuse.
I understand illness in the family.. but someone taking a vacation prevented single carrier determination?
when two elections proceeded after we filed before them?
how does someone react to that?
I am ready to vote.
just like everyone else who has made up their minds!
*I take everything into consideration when voting.
Luke, I accept responsibility for personal actions on the job, and tell the truth.
the truth always comes out in the end.
it always does, and always will.
The rest of your post I acknowledged.. but it is not relevant regarding filing/pulling an election request.
- Thread Starter
- #303
The purpose of this campaign is not to just simply have a vote. Its to win, pure and simple.
By having a YES/NO ballot, this will level the playing field...but will also increase the chances of winning. Over 70% of NWA f/a's will vote to keep representation...the NWA MEC has the duty to see that the Delta flight attendant group has representaiton moving forward, this is the number 1 goal.
The Delta flight attendant activists are also working toward that goal, we have seen all too often what happens during elections!
By having a YES/NO ballot, this will level the playing field...but will also increase the chances of winning. Over 70% of NWA f/a's will vote to keep representation...the NWA MEC has the duty to see that the Delta flight attendant group has representaiton moving forward, this is the number 1 goal.
The Delta flight attendant activists are also working toward that goal, we have seen all too often what happens during elections!
That is obvious.
I thought it was simply to determine how the actual majority wishes to proceed.
not one side winning.
just make sure that YES/NO is attached to the other end to vote them out.
(that will really level the playing field)
Some have seen what also happens when they are already on the property.
We didnt go through three union because it was a "good thing" either.
I will not be surprised at all.. to see us change the fourth time, when they see how it really plays out.
Ok, so in the beginning of this text above, you seem to be saying that the request must stay in place so the NMB CAN DETERMINE it is a single carrier. Okay, fine.
Then 4 lines down you seem to be saying that they (the NMB) shouldn't have let so much time go by (vacation/illness notwithstanding), so--WHY did the NMB NOT MAKE a SCD between July 27 and Sept 2??
And in the long-run, it doesn't answer how AFA had anything to do with the Determination not being made by the NMB from July 27-Sep 2. How is the AFA responsible for that 6 week gap?? Please expound.
Also, how many times does it take for you to understand that USA3000 and the other airline were NOT involved with SCD?! It was simple for them as they have VERY few f/a's (something like 100 each). They turned in the 35% of required cards and the NMB assigned a voting date.
Do you think a 128 f/a election and a 21,000 f/a election where the latter is involved in a merger, are the same??
Are you saying that those involved did not accept responsibility? Are you saying that being falsely accused of something means you are somehow responsible--- just what are you saying here? Are you calling those involved liars because it suits your agenda?
How is it not relevant to the very REASON we are filing an election in the first place?
The union files a request, the NMB determines single carrier and then sets a date.
I am saying, personal related matters are not relevant to the Union filing a request to have an eletion.
because someone's personal issues is not my business nor yours and a separate issue altogether.
So, because you deem them personal issues,(the f/a's were exonerated due to ALPA investigation of the lab) it negates the fact that it happened AT WORK and involved compliance with rules and regulations that every FA, you included, must adhere to, and has nothing to do with representational issues? (Be it representation by an AFA attorney or your own atty).
Then, WHAT is all of this back and forth about????? If you don't think issues like these two need to be addressed or considered when making a choice for representation, then lady, you better go out and find another hobby! Because then you are just argueing for argument's sake and have no real core issues to debate...only superfluous items.
have absolutely no idea. :unsure:
you are the one bringing up personal related issues,
I am just trying to figure out why the request was filed and then pulled.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
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Certainly they are not the same, but if the current voting method is fair enough for those other two carriers why is it not fair enough for DL/NW FA's? Conversely, if the current voting procedure is so unfair for the DL/NW FA's why was it not also so unfair to those two situations?
The only difference that I see in respect to the voting format is the number of FA's involved which affects the potential amount of dues to be collected or not based on the election outcome. In other words, winning or losing at Compass or USA3000 was of little consequence to the AFA-CWA - heck, it may even cost money to represent the FA's at those carriers - but losing DL/NW (DL again) would be a real blow.
Jim
They are not just personal-related issues, Dignity. They affect OUR workplace.
I brought them up because you are on here every day and I felt like (don't know why I bothered) I should offer to you the other side of being union-free.
Would you like me to go back and start an entirely different thread..is that your point?
Isn't the request that you want to discuss ABOUT something? A vote, perhaps? A vote for, representation, perhaps? And what representation brings with it (or doesn't)?
Sheesh....
regardless if the process involves 300 Flight Attendants or 20,000 Flight Attendants, the format that has been labeled "unfair" was the same format that was used to secure Union Representation at two other airlines for the same union.
so if our election is unfair, would that not make those two elections unfair as well?
would this also make the entire airline industry who basically unionized under the current
format all considered unfair?
should those two elections be re-run including the entire industry under the fair format?
see how this just doenst make any sense at all?
I really hope this is not just about the money, because if that is the case, delaying the election would absolutely be unfair.
Ask the NMB, Jim. Ask them why it's fair for USA3000 and not DL/NW.
It has been stated before that the current interpretation of the voting system has worked in many instances, in spite of itself, not because of it.
The larger the group, the more spread out, the more FAs on extended leaves who have other lives, other businesses, haven't flown in many years , the more chances that their silence does not necessarily equate to a "NO" vote. If in fact, it does, then there is nothing for those against AFA to worry about. If 60% of DL f/a's truly voted down representation (as company press releases stated) in 2008, then there should be no problem. FAs will come out to vote and we will see if indeed it is true that the majority of the combined group does not want representation.
Take a look at the poll at the top of this page. Most agree with me.
Better yet, go to this site:
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/proposed...rulemaking.html
An overwhelming majority see the need for change to a YES/NO.
OK. if you are so concerned about the need to have a Union on the property ASAP, should they
have actually filed as soon as possible.. like right away to make sure we have a Union to bail everyone
out of a problem, and since they are refusing to do so timely, then filing and pulling the request,
they are in fact doing a great injustice?
I get up every day, I walk the dogs every day, I brush my teeth everyday, check email too, fly a HVT here and there and write a lot, not just here and these topics so,
OK.
and I have always appreciated all your input.
another thread? for the love of all that is Holy, No.
is that my point,
O.M.G.
No.
I would simply like the opportunity to vote, I do not understand why that is such an issue?
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
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- 5,865
As far as I know the NMB hasn't said that the voting process was fair for USA3000 and Compass but not for DL/NW - can you provide a link to something showing otherwise? What 2 of the 3 NMB members have said is that the current method should be changed. Interestingly, one of the reasons they cited is management's increasing tendency to seek employee involvement in workplace issues. Does that mean that the company can be more fothcoming with advice in representational elections?
An unscientific poll proves nothing except that more voted that want a change than do not want a change. It says nothing about the sentiment of the majority of affected employees.
A sidenote - I don't think the 2 NMB members recommending the change used the words "fair" or "unfair" anywhere in the link you provided. What they say is that a "Yes/No" vote method is a more reliable indicator of a group's sentiment regarding representation. Would you not agree that the reliability factor would also be applicable to decertification of a union?
Jim
those were form letters with some just having a signature and some of the signatures were not legible.
where are the personal heart felt hand written letters?
a decision is made based on a form letter?
personally like to read some one's thoughts on the issues either way.. not a form letter but that is JMO.
