Union elections and the RLA....POLL!

[LukeAisleWalker]

As an aside...oh, nevermind.

Sayonara.

 

[southwind]

Absolutely. They need to make a decision in the next week or so.. otherwise the new panel comes off as looking weak and ineffective, rudderless. I'm all for the rule change but let's get going. They were selected because of their expertise. The AFA's SCD application has been in their hands for over 2 months and the TTD's request for a change has been on their desk for a month. It's time. Let's go folks...!!!!!!!!

As I'm sure all "Pro-union" people are for the "Rule-change"................since it's to their benefit !

Personally, someone not voting ,should count as a NO vote, since apparently having a union was not on their list of priorities !

 

[tech2101]

Have you ever been part of a union and participated in negotiations under the RLA and Section 6?

If you have then you would know that what you propose would give the membership zero bargaining power and no incentive for the company to ever settle a CBA and just force the vote and vote out a union so they can do what they want with you.

Exactly. The company would not negotiate in any sort of good faith. They would then point at the union and advertise to the employees and the world that if it were not for the union, they would be able to give everyone a raise and better benefits. The membership would then vote out this union, then times would be suddenly tough and the company would give you nothing.

Sound about right?

 

[Dignity]

Exactly. The company would not negotiate in any sort of good faith. They would then point at the union and advertise to the employees and the world that if it were not for the union, they would be able to give everyone a raise and better benefits. The membership would then vote out this union, then times would be suddenly tough and the company would give you nothing.

Sound about right?

then they should not ask for a democratic election!

 

[Dignity]

I'm all for the rule change but let's get going. They were selected because of their expertise. The AFA's SCD application has been in their hands for over 2 months and the TTD's request for a change has been on their desk for a month. It's time. Let's go folks...!!!!!!!!

exactly.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

then they should not ask for a democratic election!

I think with this statement you may be throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.
They should OF COURSE ask for a democratic election as we hold every other election (including non airline/RR union elections) in this manner.
Here's the thing. It doesn't have to be either/or. Where there are problems, there are also solutions.
I like the idea of showing 35% of cards that ask for decertification. I also think that the contract must stay in place for the first 2 years and THEN if there is a showing of support, a decertification process can begin. I don't think it should be on a set timetable (every 4 years) because then indeed it would affect negotiations and mgt perhaps would use it in order not to negotiate in good faith. There are many possiblilities and variants.

Also, the ONLY reason the RLA provided for a majority-type election over 70 years ago was to prohibit "the disruption of interstate commerce." Isn't that what PBE's are for? (Presidential Emergency Boards). Clinton used one at a few minutes after midnight w/ an AA pilot strike and Bush, jr. used one in the early years of his Presidency I believe with the UAL pilots (only he announced/threatened his way BEFORE they walked so in essence MGT didn't have to bargain in good faith...no surprise there tho.)
So....there really is no sound reason for the ancient election policy to stay in place.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Personally, someone not voting ,should count as a NO vote, since apparently having a union was not on their list of priorities !

So in, say, Congressional elections where about 38% of the qualified population comes out to vote, those Americans that don't find it a priority and therefore don't vote, should count. If that were the case, then there'd be some mighty old cadavers propped up in the Senate Chamber or House Floor.
I don't know how to tell you this but the laws in which you (hopefully) abide that are made in Washington are made by men and women who were NOT elected by majority vote.

 

[Dignity]

I think with this statement you may be throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.
They should OF COURSE ask for a democratic election as we hold every other election (including non airline/RR union elections) in this manner.
Here's the thing. It doesn't have to be either/or. Where there are problems, there are also solutions.

it is a point I am trying to make, not necessarily that is how it will be or should be.

democratic elections in this country are recurring.

...I keep hearing over and over, we are to have democratic elections like every other election in the country...then by all means, (as an example).. every four years..

do that.

(just like every other election in this country it is being compared to)

the comparison is not appropriate

(if they do not intend to follow through how it is actually defined)

I like the idea of showing 35% of cards that ask for decertification.

that will have to be taken into consideration, should they opt to change the initial election format.

I also think that the contract must stay in place for the first 2 years and THEN if there is a showing of support, a decertification process can begin.

I agree with that..

I don't think it should be on a set timetable (every 4 years) because then indeed it would affect negotiations and mgt perhaps would use it in order not to negotiate in good faith. There are many possiblilities and variants.

I do not really either,

its like this, they are selective picking and choosing while at the same time making an comparison, how it should be, but only the parts they want changed.

they should stop making comparisons to a format they do not intend to follow, was basically my entire point

ancient

if it is considered ancient, which I happen to agree it probably is.

they do not just address one aspect while maintaining the rest.

because it is all considered ancient and all of it must change.

they are asking to change the election format permanently, while keeping the process to decertify or change unions, exactly the same.

that is not going to happen the way some intend.

 

[southwind]

So in, say, Congressional elections where about 38% of the qualified population comes out to vote, those Americans that don't find it a priority and therefore don't vote, should count. If that were the case, then there'd be some mighty old cadavers propped up in the Senate Chamber or House Floor.
I don't know how to tell you this but the laws in which you (hopefully) abide that are made in Washington are made by men and women who were NOT elected by majority vote.

So now your comparing Politics with Unions ? Well, someones finally seen the light then !

The "ONLY" reason pro-union people want to change the way voting works is because it benefits them........................PERIOD !

It has nothing to do with how your Congressman is elected !

 

[Airlinelifer]

So now your comparing Politics with Unions ? Well, someones finally seen the light then !

The "ONLY" reason pro-union people want to change the way voting works is because it benefits them........................PERIOD !

It has nothing to do with how your Congressman is elected !

Of course, this complaint of “changing the rulesâ€￾ is rich coming from a company that tried to manipulate an NMB application from its pilots earlier this year to cut off its flight attendants’ and ground employees’ opportunity to vote on unionization. All in defiance of decades of NMB precedent.

I guess Anderson’s ox didn’t like getting the horns this time.

 

[roadtrip]

I voted yes to this poll. This is a democracy the USA is it not? Fairness is what we all believe living in a free country. If you believe this then you vote to express your belief and go to the poll to vote yes or no on issues that face society such as funding for a new bridge for your town for example. If one does not express their vote by voting yes or no they do not count they abstain thats their as well and therefore they do not count!
We have been living under this democracy style elections for 200 plus years america was founded on these rights. Now I ask why would anyone want and undemocratic stlye election? If you believe we should I'm sure you want to change all elections to this style starting with Wall Street stock voting then america can come to a screaching halt! Then go to Congress the senate or President we would never elect even one Republican Democrat or Libertarian. Or then your local church meetings or the local clubs nothing would get ever get ratified or accomplished . See the sound of this style doesnt sound to good once you apply it to other areas of your life. Simple majority if you dont vote you dont count! To single out The Transportation industry was and still is an unjust undemocratic sytem in which the time has come to change this unamercian style election process.

Yes or No if you dont vote you dont count....anyone against that idea is just unamerican

 

[jalbalpa]

Btw....

Over 80% of all eligible USA3000 flight attendants just voted to join AFA.

 

[southwind]

I voted yes to this poll. This is a democracy the USA is it not? Fairness is what we all believe living in a free country. If you believe this then you vote to express your belief and go to the poll to vote yes or no on issues that face society such as funding for a new bridge for your town for example. If one does not express their vote by voting yes or no they do not count they abstain thats their as well and therefore they do not count!
We have been living under this democracy style elections for 200 plus years america was founded on these rights. Now I ask why would anyone want and undemocratic stlye election? If you believe we should I'm sure you want to change all elections to this style starting with Wall Street stock voting then america can come to a screaching halt! Then go to Congress the senate or President we would never elect even one Republican Democrat or Libertarian. Or then your local church meetings or the local clubs nothing would get ever get ratified or accomplished . See the sound of this style doesnt sound to good once you apply it to other areas of your life. Simple majority if you dont vote you dont count! To single out The Transportation industry was and still is an unjust undemocratic sytem in which the time has come to change this unamercian style election process.

Yes or No if you dont vote you dont count....anyone against that idea is just unamerican

Why is this an issue all of the sudden.................afraid you don't have enough votes without it ?

According to the post above this one, Over 80% of all eligible USA3000 flight attendants just voted to join AFA and didn't need to change the rules to do it!

 

[Dignity]

everyone else can have an election but we cant.. ok... whatever! hehe :blink:

in the meantime..... since no one can manage to do anything other than sit around and watch everyone else have an election....

CONTRACT

(cause we aint getting one anytime soon.. if ever.. if they dont get off their you know what and set an election date.. like they did at the other one.. even though they were able to do a 50% plus one election, but we cant cause its not fair)

Definition:

Contract - if that is what some want.. Its n-e-v-e-r going to happen if someone doesnt make a decision on an election.

SECTION 1. JOBS

This section applies to everyone currently employed.

(1) you have a job, do your job, do not screw up on your job and you will keep your job.

SECTION 2. BE NICE

This section applies to everyone being nice (at all times).

(1) be nice

(2) act nice

(3) try, even though there hasnt been an election date set.

SECTION 3. VACATION

This section applies to everyone wanting to take a vacation.

(1) if you follow Section 1, you will get a vacation

(just like those who are on a 24/7 365 vacation and wont make a decision on an election)

SECTION 4. UNIFORM

(1) you have super uniform.

(2) wear that uniform like you are suppose to.

(3) follow Section 1 and you will keep wearing that uniform.

SECTION 5. PAY

(1) you will keep getting paid as long as we dont go bankrupt

(like what happened the last time..oops!)



sign here ___________________________________________

Note: this is not a legal document, was never a legal document and wont ever be a legal document.

 

[Dignity]

According to the post above this one, Over 80% of all eligible USA3000 flight attendants just voted to join AFA and didn't need to change the rules to do it!

congratulations to those Flight Attendants.

what I would like to know is if their election format was 50% plus one and if they thought that was fair.