Unions in trouble

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/florida-gop-union-busting-bill-filed-for-2018-9885698

How many think the TWU would have a hard time getting support from a workforce that wasn’t required to be part of the union as a condition of employment?

Yes we are the union, but we have no vote and no voice, not to mention sometimes we hear positive news about AA negotiations then we hear the opposite without knowing what we are asking for or what we are being offered.

I remember voting out of office a guy none of us thought had our best interest at heart. All of a sudden instead of returning to the floor he was appointed to a permenant union spot at the local.

One of his best lines, you don’t like it, there’s no fence between here and United.

That article is not an example of journalism. It is an example of leftist propaganda.

No real journalist would write something like this.

(The measure faces a rougher ride through the state Senate, but in deep-red Tallahassee, anything is possible as long as it's cruel and mean to the working class and the poor.)

Another example.

State Rep. Scott Plakon, a Longwood Republican who looks like a low-rent Mitch McConnell impersonator, filed his bill again this past October.

There are more but you get the idea.

 

[eolesen]

The Janus case only covers public sector unions.

True, however assuming that the ruling comes down that a public sector worker cannot be compelled to be forced to belong to a union and/or pay dues/agency fee as a condition of employment, it's a very clear next step (and maybe an equal protection case) for someone to challenge why a private sector worker should be compelled to belong to a union and pay dues as a condition of employment.

 

[Buck]

True, however assuming that the ruling comes down that a public sector worker cannot be compelled to be forced to belong to a union and/or pay dues/agency fee as a condition of employment, it's a very clear next step (and maybe an equal protection case) for someone to challenge why a private sector worker should be compelled to belong to a union and pay dues as a condition of employment.

Are you indicating as a private sector worker they would be in the case of airlines flow the NMB rules?

 

[jimntx]

No, I think E was saying that if public sector workers are relieved of the requirement to belong to a union, it would not be difficult for private sector workers to petition the courts for equal protection which makes a lot of sense regardless of which labor laws cover them.. The courts like to see commonality across Constitutional protections.. Saying that no one except airline employees covered under the NRLA may be compelled to belong to a union even sounds discriminatory.

Then, the next step would be to get airline employees out from underneath the Railway Labor Act. Now there's a labor condition that truly makes no sense. Say out loud, airline employees are covered by the Railway Labor Act. It even sounds dumb, particularly since about 99% of all railway activity is freight hauling now, not passenger service.

 

[eolesen]

Yep, Jim. You have my interpretation correct, and I do think that the RLA is going to fall at some point as well in my lifetime. It's an anachronism to the days where transportation infrastructure was privately owned and there were huge barriers to competition. The Pennsylvania couldn't just go lay new track to compete directly with the Baltimore and Ohio or New York Central, nor were there options for commuters to be able to drive, use Uber, or telecommute when the commuter railroad or transit agency went on strike.

Today, anyone with an Amex Black Card can lease an airplane and crew from someone who holds a certificate, call themselves an airline, and start flying people between A and B....

 

[NYer]

True, however assuming that the ruling comes down that a public sector worker cannot be compelled to be forced to belong to a union and/or pay dues/agency fee as a condition of employment, it's a very clear next step (and maybe an equal protection case) for someone to challenge why a private sector worker should be compelled to belong to a union and pay dues as a condition of employment.

That's already the case in many Right-to-Work States.

That trend has been ongoing for quite some time and unless unions members and union representatives stop fighting each other and politicking to keep cushy jobs it won't be long because the anti-union politicians start tearing down whatever may be left after Janus.

 

[NYer]

No, I think E was saying that if public sector workers are relieved of the requirement to belong to a union, it would not be difficult for private sector workers to petition the courts for equal protection which makes a lot of sense regardless of which labor laws cover them.. The courts like to see commonality across Constitutional protections.. Saying that no one except airline employees covered under the NRLA may be compelled to belong to a union even sounds discriminatory.

Then, the next step would be to get airline employees out from underneath the Railway Labor Act. Now there's a labor condition that truly makes no sense. Say out loud, airline employees are covered by the Railway Labor Act. It even sounds dumb, particularly since about 99% of all railway activity is freight hauling now, not passenger service.

The airlines and railroads may always be covered by the NMB because it makes any action against the companies in those industries illegal.

 

[eolesen]

Yeah, well, at some point you have to ask why should they be treated different from anyone else.

 

[jimntx]

The airlines and railroads may always be covered by the NMB because it makes any action against the companies in those industries illegal.

But, that would just be another case of 'this law applies to you, but not to them" or "this Constitutional protection applies to them, but not to you." A disjoint between diiferent groups of workers. There was a time when the RLA made sense for airline employees, not now. And, remember the RLA and the NMB are two entirely separate things. One has to do with what can and cannot be required of airline employees. The other is simply a mechanism for settling differences in legal interpretation--ideally to the satisfaction of both parties. I.E., mediation.

 

[eolesen]

I think he may have meant the NLRA vs. RLA... not the NMB vs. the RLA.

The NLRA has the NLRB.... the RLA has the NMB... both B's mediate disputes but under different authority.

 

[Bagbelt]

It has been a long time since I have posted as I left American 10 years ago. I work repairing subway cars for the transit system. I would be covered under the Janus decision. I have not read the whole thread but just wanted to make the point that the issue was because we negotiate directly with the government 1st amendment issues are the argument. Weather that would transfer directly onto the private sector is anyone's guess. I'm sure it would be tried. I did notice that Trump has met with what would have been considered the AFL many years ago, which was a craft federation and resisted merging with the CIO. Labor law under Taft-Hartley, the RLA and local public workers under state law has been in place since the 1930s when Wagner was passed. It is long past time modern associations were codified in that at least membership was apolitical and simply an alternative to an employee at will. The "gig" economy is estimated at 17% now and growing. A future of 1000s of independent contractors not covered by any abuse working at a company may well become a reality.

 

[B737 driver]

It has been a long time since I have posted as I left American 10 years ago. I work repairing subway cars for the transit system. I would be covered under the Janus decision. I have not read the whole thread but just wanted to make the point that the issue was because we negotiate directly with the government 1st amendment issues are the argument. Weather that would transfer directly onto the private sector is anyone's guess. I'm sure it would be tried. I did notice that Trump has met with what would have been considered the AFL many years ago, which was a craft federation and resisted merging with the CIO. Labor law under Taft-Hartley, the RLA and local public workers under state law has been in place since the 1930s when Wagner was passed. It is long past time modern associations were codified in that at least membership was apolitical and simply an alternative to an employee at will. The "gig" economy is estimated at 17% now and growing. A future of 1000s of independent contractors not covered by any abuse working at a company may well become a reality.

I guarantee if labor does not want to play ball with cost and contracts, the Airlines will do whatever they can to drag it out , to their cost advantage.

 

[lineguy43]

I guarantee if labor does not want to play ball with cost and contracts, the Airlines will do whatever they can to drag it out , to their cost advantage.

Exactly! That's why I will not work as an A@P again in the airlines that have a union. Airlines take advantage of the RLA to drag out contracts forever and give a "token" signing bonus instead of full retro pay when they finally settle a contract.

 

[Bagbelt]

Not trying to sound like I'm wearing a tin foil hat but I believe drastic changes are going to happen within a generation. I mentioned gig work but also what AI and advanced robotics can accomplish, such as driverless vehicles to begin with. I can remember when unions had enough density to make things happen and occasionally they punch over their weight. But even 20 years ago such protracted talks wouldn't have happened.

 

[Buck]

Not trying to sound like I'm wearing a tin foil hat but I believe drastic changes are going to happen within a generation. I mentioned gig work but also what AI and advanced robotics can accomplish, such as driverless vehicles to begin with. I can remember when unions had enough density to make things happen and occasionally they punch over their weight. But even 20 years ago such protracted talks wouldn't have happened.

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You just cannot use the words without being trained.

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