Unions negotiating integration

[swamt]

Can anyone post what the Teamsters have in mind for the integration of senority for the AMT's?

Or does anyone have any suggestions? I don't want to hear "staple to the bottom" from sw. And not "number one for number one" These two will not happen. Just not fair.

Teamsters will be hard to deal with since they hate us over here at SWA. Most of you know the past history of us and the teamsters. Hopefully they won't do anything stupid to screw it all up for you guys and drag it out. However we are expecting them to.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Can anyone post what the Teamsters have in mind for the integration of senority for the AMT's?

Can't say specifically for the Teamsters, but in general it will work like this:

- if the same union represents the same employee group at both airlines (i.e. the FA's at both are represented by the AFA), that union's merger policy will apply.

- if different unions represent the same employees at each airline, the federal law will apply and it calls for negotiation then arbitration if necessary.

- if an employee group on one side is non-union while unionized on the other, the federal law will also apply.

So the only time that negotiation between the two sides, followed by arbitration if necessary, will not be used is when the same union represents the same employee group on both sides.

Jim

 

[xUT]

Can anyone post what the Teamsters have in mind for the integration of senority for the AMT's?

Or does anyone have any suggestions? I don't want to hear "staple to the bottom" from sw. And not "number one for number one" These two will not happen. Just not fair.

Teamsters will be hard to deal with since they hate us over here at SWA. Most of you know the past history of us and the teamsters. Hopefully they won't do anything stupid to screw it all up for you guys and drag it out. However we are expecting them to.

You should already know.
reamsters will lie, deceive, cheat and; any scrupulous and; unscrupulous action to screw everyone and anyone as long as the get dues money.
IMHO, that's why you kicked them out.
Now UA mechs are whining about the reamsters.
Too bad, sooooo sad....
xUT

 

[swamt]

You should already know.
reamsters will lie, deceive, cheat and; any scrupulous and; unscrupulous action to screw everyone and anyone as long as the get dues money.
IMHO, that's why you kicked them out.
Now UA mechs are whining about the reamsters.
Too bad, sooooo sad....
xUT

Enough said brother. Amen

 

[Bob Owens]

Air Tran has only been around ten years, seems that blending them in would put most of them near the bottom anyway.

 

[swamt]

Air Tran has only been around ten years, seems that blending them in would put most of them near the bottom anyway.

That is not true. As we all know A/T is the old Value Jet. Mechanic senority goes back to 1-1-94. That will be 17 years by this January 2011. There are alot of people out here that think their senority only goes back to 1997. SWA is still hirring mechanics. Just hired 7 or 8 for Chicago. Not to mention that SWA is still getting fresh appr. mechs through their training program. If A/T was givin 1/1 DOH that will put A/T mechs above hundreds of swa mechs. Nowhere near the bottom sir.

 

[brokenwrench]

That is not true. As we all know A/T is the old Value Jet. Mechanic senority goes back to 1-1-94. That will be 17 years by this January 2011. There are alot of people out here that think their senority only goes back to 1997. SWA is still hirring mechanics. Just hired 7 or 8 for Chicago. Not to mention that SWA is still getting fresh appr. mechs through their training program. If A/T was givin 1/1 DOH that will put A/T mechs above hundreds of swa mechs. Nowhere near the bottom sir.

What is wrong with DOH?

 

[xUT]

What is wrong with DOH?

 

[swamt]

What is wrong with DOH?

DOH would give all the A/T mechs. a very over whellming ABOVE fair results. The results won't affect me, however, I would't think it would be fair to some of the lower senority mechs. to be put lower on the list than a mech. from a co. that we bought. See other posts in other titled headings to see what they will gain.
A/T mechs will gain raises, vac., hol., 401K match 7.3% ect.. Plus much more... Answer this please; In comparo to what all the AirTran guys will gain, What will the SWA guys gain? Absolutely-nothing!! This is why they will need to give a little to gain alot...

 

[xUT]

DOH would give all the A/T mechs. a very over whellming ABOVE fair results. The results won't affect me, however, I would't think it would be fair to some of the lower senority mechs. to be put lower on the list than a mech. from a co. that we bought. See other posts in other titled headings to see what they will gain.
A/T mechs will gain raises, vac., hol., 401K match 7.3% ect.. Plus much more... Answer this please; In comparo to what all the AirTran guys will gain, What will the SWA guys gain? Absolutely-nothing!! This is why they will need to give a little to gain alot...

That's why I love you guys... h34r:
DOH is good when it is to your benefit but unfair when it may bump your seniority.
I guess this could go back to the Fruit discussion.


Maybe you can work with the company for a tiered system. 10 years to top out for the AT Scum...
Just staple their a$$ to the bottom and be proud...

 

[Bob Owens]

DOH would give all the A/T mechs. a very over whellming ABOVE fair results. The results won't affect me, however, I would't think it would be fair to some of the lower senority mechs. to be put lower on the list than a mech. from a co. that we bought. See other posts in other titled headings to see what they will gain.
A/T mechs will gain raises, vac., hol., 401K match 7.3% ect.. Plus much more... Answer this please; In comparo to what all the AirTran guys will gain, What will the SWA guys gain? Absolutely-nothing!! This is why they will need to give a little to gain alot...

Technically "you" didnt buy anything, your employer bought them. No doubt its a great deal for them but in the end you would have a more united workforce, one that would stand a better chance of retaining things in the contract that you guys have retained so far if you just went one DOH. That used to be AMFAs position, long before they became the Union at SWA.

What you do gain is more stations that you could transfer to if you like. Otherwise you're right, you gain nothing, but like I said, your employer bought them you didnt, just be glad they bought a relatively new company. Imagine if they bought AA or UAL.

 

[swamt]

Technically "you" didnt buy anything, your employer bought them. No doubt its a great deal for them but in the end you would have a more united workforce, one that would stand a better chance of retaining things in the contract that you guys have retained so far if you just went one DOH. That used to be AMFAs position, long before they became the Union at SWA.

What you do gain is more stations that you could transfer to if you like. Otherwise you're right, you gain nothing, but like I said, your employer bought them you didnt, just be glad they bought a relatively new company. Imagine if they bought AA or UAL.

This is where you are wrong once again. When stating "we bought AirTran" the "WE" is the entire co. that all employees are a part of. "WE" tend to include all, when "WE" are talking about OUR co. We never intend to seperate employees, unions and employer. So as I stated before, yes "WE" as a co. did buy AirTran. Never once did I ever say, I bought AirTran. You are fairly close to being correct about AMFA's position, and, no it has not changed as you are trying to indicate, when AMFA came to SWA, in your post. There has to be all kinds of certain critieria met before AMFA will take a position. And here is where you are correct, yes, "WE" will gain more stations to transfer to if "WE" wish to. As well for any and all AirTran employees once the intregration is completed. As far as our workforce getting stronger; this will happen naturally as we do gain well over 8000 employees, with about 400 of those coming to the mechanic ranks. Rather they get DOH or not, we will still become larger and stronger just by completing the intregration.

Now Bob, please stop nic-picking the little things. "WE" all on this web site understand that when anyone on here post a "we, they, them, us" --"WE" all know what they mean. Turning phrases like these around to try to make yourself or your union look better, only makes you look even worse. Please tell "US" Bob; are you a teamster @ AirTran in a leadership position? Or are you a twu member @ AA in a leadership position? (Union leadership position) Next why don't you pick at my spelling or my puntuations it's the same damb thing. Plus, it's all you have to throw against someone with AMFA.

 

[Bob Owens]

This is where you are wrong once again. When stating "we bought AirTran" the "WE" is the entire co. that all employees are a part of. "WE" tend to include all, when "WE" are talking about OUR co. We never intend to seperate employees, unions and employer. So as I stated before, yes "WE" as a co. did buy AirTran. Never once did I ever say, I bought AirTran. You are fairly close to being correct about AMFA's position, and, no it has not changed as you are trying to indicate, when AMFA came to SWA, in your post. There has to be all kinds of certain critieria met before AMFA will take a position. And here is where you are correct, yes, "WE" will gain more stations to transfer to if "WE" wish to. As well for any and all AirTran employees once the intregration is completed. As far as our workforce getting stronger; this will happen naturally as we do gain well over 8000 employees, with about 400 of those coming to the mechanic ranks. Rather they get DOH or not, we will still become larger and stronger just by completing the intregration.

Now Bob, please stop nic-picking the little things. "WE" all on this web site understand that when anyone on here post a "we, they, them, us" --"WE" all know what they mean. Turning phrases like these around to try to make yourself or your union look better, only makes you look even worse. Please tell "US" Bob; are you a teamster @ AirTran in a leadership position? Or are you a twu member @ AA in a leadership position? (Union leadership position) Next why don't you pick at my spelling or my puntuations it's the same damb thing. Plus, it's all you have to throw against someone with AMFA.

Did management consult with you before YOU bought Airtran? What was your part in the decision making process?

Its not nitpicking, its fact. Your employer purchased AirTran. You've been fortunate that you have a historically and exceptionaly good and fair employer, but at the end of the day its not "your" airline. Employment does not mean ownership. You may own a little piece of it but I doubt its a controlling interest in it. The guys who worked for Ozark Airlines had a great contract and AMFA as well, one day they found out they were "sold" to TWA. Their contract offered them protections but their airline was sold without their consent.

I didnt imply anything about AMFA, only stated what I recall was their position, and I worked alongside one of the guys who founded AMFA back in 1964 at JFK. Your union was founded in the hangar I work in. When Ozark was purchased by TWA, AMFA insisted that their guys were dovetailed by the seniority they held prior to the merger/aquisition.

I'm not here to antagonize you, just share my perspectives as a mechanic who has been in this industry for 30 years who is hoping that we as a group can one day get our act together and realize that we need to stick together as mechanics and do things that will promote the profession, not just our respective positions at our current location.

Before you go assuming that my motives are with ill intent let me tell you a few things about myself. I was thrown out of office by the TWU International for sueing the International and criticizing the officials who helped jam the concessions of 2003 down our throats. They claimed that my criticisms of the TWU were an endorsement of AMFA, which was conducting a card drive at AA at the time. If the truth hurts then so be it, I'm not going to lie for anyone, even if it means I get removed. Based solely on my criticisms they convicted me of Dual Unionism. The Trial committe consisted of three subordinates of my accusor. I was forced out of office for five years, when I ran for office two years ago (at the behest of my peers) several Presidents, some of whom who ended up getting what amounts to appointed titles in the International, came to my Local the week the ballots went out and tried to tell my peers not to vote for me, claiming that they had made a lot of progress and they needed to keep my predecessor in place. The President from Tulsa at the time was one of them and claimed that the bases and the line were on the same page. Well I got elected anyway. Out of the four guys that were sent three have since been voted out of office, including the President from Tulsa whose members voted against the deal he recommended they accept by a ratio of 2 to 1. Thats the first time in the 24 years with the company I saw the members of Tulsa vote against their Presidents recommendation. He claimed 90% would accept the deal. I recommended rejection and my Local membership voted against it by 94%. When I look at you I dont see an opponent because you belong to a different union and a different company, I see a fellow mechanic. I'm not seeking favor from the IBT, in fact I've been very critical of the deal they brought back at Continental. I've no doubt that if I'm on their list, its on their Sh--List. You need to realize that your future gains will be affected by what I can get and what everyone else gets. What we do affects each other regardless of what union we are in. So far you guys have been fortunate, but still, you are making less than an A&P should.

Lighten up and step back to see what I'm trying to say and dont be so defensive. I realize I may be saying things you dont want to hear but I can assure you I have no ill will towards you guys.

 

[swamt]

Did management consult with you before YOU bought Airtran? What was your part in the decision making process?

Its not nitpicking, its fact. Your employer purchased AirTran. You've been fortunate that you have a historically and exceptionaly good and fair employer, but at the end of the day its not "your" airline. Employment does not mean ownership. You may own a little piece of it but I doubt its a controlling interest in it. The guys who worked for Ozark Airlines had a great contract and AMFA as well, one day they found out they were "sold" to TWA. Their contract offered them protections but their airline was sold without their consent.

I didnt imply anything about AMFA, only stated what I recall was their position, and I worked alongside one of the guys who founded AMFA back in 1964 at JFK. Your union was founded in the hangar I work in. When Ozark was purchased by TWA, AMFA insisted that their guys were dovetailed by the seniority they held prior to the merger/aquisition.

I'm not here to antagonize you, just share my perspectives as a mechanic who has been in this industry for 30 years who is hoping that we as a group can one day get our act together and realize that we need to stick together as mechanics and do things that will promote the profession, not just our respective positions at our current location.

Before you go assuming that my motives are with ill intent let me tell you a few things about myself. I was thrown out of office by the TWU International for sueing the International and criticizing the officials who helped jam the concessions of 2003 down our throats. They claimed that my criticisms of the TWU were an endorsement of AMFA, which was conducting a card drive at AA at the time. If the truth hurts then so be it, I'm not going to lie for anyone, even if it means I get removed. Based solely on my criticisms they convicted me of Dual Unionism. The Trial committe consisted of three subordinates of my accusor. I was forced out of office for five years, when I ran for office two years ago (at the behest of my peers) several Presidents, some of whom who ended up getting what amounts to appointed titles in the International, came to my Local the week the ballots went out and tried to tell my peers not to vote for me, claiming that they had made a lot of progress and they needed to keep my predecessor in place. The President from Tulsa at the time was one of them and claimed that the bases and the line were on the same page. Well I got elected anyway. Out of the four guys that were sent three have since been voted out of office, including the President from Tulsa whose members voted against the deal he recommended they accept by a ratio of 2 to 1. Thats the first time in the 24 years with the company I saw the members of Tulsa vote against their Presidents recommendation. He claimed 90% would accept the deal. I recommended rejection and my Local membership voted against it by 94%. When I look at you I dont see an opponent because you belong to a different union and a different company, I see a fellow mechanic. I'm not seeking favor from the IBT, in fact I've been very critical of the deal they brought back at Continental. I've no doubt that if I'm on their list, its on their Sh--List. You need to realize that your future gains will be affected by what I can get and what everyone else gets. What we do affects each other regardless of what union we are in. So far you guys have been fortunate, but still, you are making less than an A&P should.

Lighten up and step back to see what I'm trying to say and dont be so defensive. I realize I may be saying things you dont want to hear but I can assure you I have no ill will towards you guys.

Sorry, just get defensive when someone (anyone, not just you) from another union that does not have open neg. and open communication with the entire membership puts down a union that they were never a part of or experienced. Now my main complaint is against the teamsters, as I have never been a member of the TWU. However, from what I have read and seen, in person, about the TWU, the 2 unions I mention are very much alike. I do think the mechanics are smart trying to get AMP in at AA. I believe all the constitution and by-laws are a carbon coppy of the way AMFA runs. So I believe they all do want change at AA, but they want to go with a private union, as we were going to at first here at SWA.