US Pilot Labor Thread for the week 6/6 to 6/13

Status
Not open for further replies.

Richard

Veteran
Dec 15, 2005
2,084
2
Here is the new renamed pilot topic thread for the week.

I will remind you all that the rules of the board must be observed.

Thank you.
 
QUOTE DELETED BY MODERATOR--SEE ABOVE.


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

Oh no, not the CACTUS callsign! Anything but that, USAPA offer to implement the Nic to stop it.

Who cares what we call it? East whining? Did you watch the PHX crew news session with Kirby? Get a life.
 
Oh no, not the CACTUS callsign! Anything but that, USAPA offer to implement the Nic to stop it.

Who cares what we call it? East whining? Did you watch the PHX crew news session with Kirby? Get a life.
Really, I don't care if we have to say in front of the flight number. I just want to get paid fairly and go home.
wopr21
 
Hey Guys and Gals,

This might put things in perspective. This is an excerpt from the July 9th 2007 seniority list for UAL. It shows 7995 pilots on the list, with the most junior being hired on August 6, 2001.

The small list at the bottom of this post is from people hired at UAL around July 18, 1988. What's special about July 18th 1988? Well, that's when Joe Monda was hired at USAirways. Remember Joe Monda? He was the MOST JUNIOR ACTIVE PILOT at USAirways at the time the merger was announced.

He was the equivalent to AWA's Dave O'Dell.

If USAirways were to have merged with United in May 2000, (and it almost happened!) the east pilots would have UNDOUBTEDLY demanded date of hire (and nothing else!) in the inevitable arbitration, which also would have been conducted under ALPA meger policy.

Under that scenario, Joe Monda would have been placed above RH Carreras, a UAL pilot hired on July 25, 1988, with a longevity date of 09-05-88. I underlined his name in the excerpt below. (his UAL seniority number is 1473, his birth date is 4-29-60, just to help decipher all the numbers) I am assuming Carreras is male, for simplicity's sake.

Here's what's interesting about RH Carreras, according to this list:

Messr. Carreras has 6522 pilots below him.

That's right, folks, 6,522 pilots, or 82% of the list below him. This means that Messr. Monda would gleefully leap-frog over 6522 pilots and take his rightful place in the top 18% of their proposed Date-of-Hire UAL/AAA seniority list.

From dead-last to senior Captain, presto-chango!!!

Maybe an arbitrator AND two pilot neutrals would go along with that, but certainly not the arbitrator AAA lobbied so strongly to hear their case, Messr. George Nicolau. A lot of people think NO arbitrator would go along with that, a lot of UAL pilots included!!! (but I'm just guessing here)

And yes, had USAirways merged with United in 2000, Joe Monda, under a likely relative seniority arbitration (like ours) would have been placed alongside UAL pilots hired many, many, many years after he was. Again, a HUGE disparity in date of hire, but again, the only fair way of doing things with a group as senior as AAA.

The point is, ANY airline out there today that were to merge with USAirways would face the prospect of having Joe Monda placed above 70-100% of their pilot group.

And this would be just fine with the east pilots.

What would not be fine with them would be a fair, relative seniority list issued under binding arbitration. However, in a UAL/AAA merger (or with any other larger carrier) they would not have the brute numbers to pull the stunt they did after Nicolau was awarded.

Am I way off base here? Anybody know of a pilot at UAL (or American, or Delta for that matter!) with 6,500 pilots or so below him who would want a junior F/O from AAA right next to him on a combined list?

PAGE 51
. PDF PILOT ELIGIBILITY SENIORITY LIST
. AS OF 07/09/07
. SEN# NAME FILE # BIRTH DATE CO. HIRE DATE PLT. SEN DATE PLT. LONG DATE

. 01471 FETENE,A 079702-0 06/30/53 07/11/88 07/11/88 09/01/88
. 01472 OBERLE,RG 079729-6 02/18/56 07/11/88 07/11/88 08/20/88
. 01473 CARRERAS,RH 079763-5 04/29/60 07/25/88 07/25/88 09/05/88
. 01474 ZEGLEN,NA 079822-1 06/16/59 07/25/88 07/25/88 09/09/88
 
Copied over from closed thread:

And this would be just fine with the east pilots.
Thank you for spewing your ignorance about mergers and what "east pilots" think all over the place. You are gonna need Q-tips as well as giant mops to clean up after yourself.

First, the east saved the west. All of the significant investors in the east put up the money to "do" the merger. Not one from the west. It is in the SEC filings. It took me 48 straight hours to download and decipher all the filings. I am certain you can do it faster.

Second. Not one east pilot, that I know, wants your job. Not because they do not care, but, because they do care about integrity and honesty. Many have been through the wringer many times and would not wish those experiences on anyone.

Third. In the event of a downsizing. Oh, gosh, look who downsized initially, before the merger announcement, US east. Look who hired in the face of a "merger", yes, US west. So, who should take a hit in the event of a downsize? Whose contract requires more pilots per aircraft? The west?

Fourth. I am sorry gas is so high. You should have thought of that before (the generic) you voted for a Texan (old saying in Texas: vote for a Texan to raise the price of gas).
 
If no east guys care about the call sign why don't you guys ask usapa to propose it as a good will gesture? Gotta start some were.
 
If no east guys care about the call sign why don't you guys ask usapa to propose it as a good will gesture? Gotta start some were.
Is there any other (intl?) airline that uses something other than their corporate name for a call-sign? While I admire doing things different, jumping over a cliff without seeing the bottom seems to invite pain, especially when the nombre evokes sticking needles in one's eyes. It is like a drug store named Osco that went south not knowing that osco, in espanol, means yucky. I have never seen a corporation change the name of their stores in such a quick manner, to Rite-Aid.
 
Is there any other (intl?) airline that uses something other than their corporate name for a call-sign? While I admire doing things different, jumping over a cliff without seeing the bottom seems to invite pain, especially when the nombre evokes sticking needles in one's eyes. It is like a drug store named Osco that went south not knowing that osco, in espanol, means yucky. I have never seen a corporation change the name of their stores in such a quick manner, to Rite-Aid.
Ever hear of Speedbird?....Clipper?
 
Hey Guys and Gals,

And this would be just fine with the east pilots.

What would not be fine with them would be a fair, relative seniority list issued under binding arbitration. However, in a UAL/AAA merger (or with any other larger carrier) they would not have the brute numbers to pull the stunt they did after Nicolau was awarded.

Am I way off base here? Anybody know of a pilot at UAL (or American, or Delta for that matter!) with 6,500 pilots or so below him who would want a junior F/O from AAA right next to him on a combined list?


All water under a burnt bridge now.

Reality, pay dues or your fired. Pay dues soon or a contract will be voted in by dues paying members.

Both airlines have to agree and vote on a contract or we are separate.

The america west pilot "leaders" underestimated the "aged, dumb, unorganized, unfunded and unfounded" original US Airways pilots. The america west pilots decided to break the law, ( USAPA vs awappa lawsuit )while the US Airways pilots pursued things legally.

Advice to america west pilots, start paying dues and proceed legally, like the original US Airways pilots.
 
All water under a burnt bridge now.

Reality, pay dues or your fired. Pay dues soon or a contract will be voted in by dues paying members.

Both airlines have to agree and vote on a contract or we are separate.

The america west pilot "leaders" underestimated the "aged, dumb, unorganized, unfunded and unfounded" original US Airways pilots. The america west pilots decided to break the law, ( USAPA vs awappa lawsuit )while the US Airways pilots pursued things legally.

Advice to america west pilots, start paying dues and proceed legally, like the original US Airways pilots.
I thought you were more concerned with representing the west, but I see it's all about dues/money. It's similar to your C&Bs where your quest for DOH is higher on the list than promoting airline safety. You said we broke the law, you broke an agreement. You subverted the process of arbitration. You'll do it again when it suits your needs. The west can't trust you. I trust when you vote on a contract, you'll be including the west's interests as well. You promised you are for "all Airways pilots." How about sending out some reps to discuss the "error" of our ways? Perhaps we can be enlightened. Perhaps you can tell us how much you are going to "help" us.
 
I thought you were more concerned with representing the west, but I see it's all about dues/money. It's similar to your C&Bs where your quest for DOH is higher on the list than promoting airline safety. You said we broke the law, you broke an agreement. You subverted the process of arbitration. You'll do it again when it suits your needs. The west can't trust you. I trust when you vote on a contract, you'll be including the west's interests as well. You promised you are for "all Airways pilots." How about sending out some reps to discuss the "error" of our ways? Perhaps we can be enlightened. Perhaps you can tell us how much you are going to "help" us.

I am not part of the leaders of USAPA, but I am part of its heart and soul. I never made an agreement to anything. We had a runaway alpa group that only cared about their rear ends.

Fact US Airways Unit of the Air Line Pilots Association Reelects MEC Officers. They voted themselves in, we voted their assets out. Alpa guys voted themselves in, rank and file voted them out by a lanslide.

Fact is pay dues or you are fired, when we negotiate we will discuss mutual benifits of a contract that is best for all pilots.

By the way Captain Scott Theuer was the US Airways pilot in the video that tried to answer the questions from the mob of america west pilots that drowned out his responses. I have flown with this gentleman many times, I am proud to be associated with him and the rest of the USAPA leaders.

We sent reps to talk to you, here is a video of your mob mentality. You asked but you did not listen videos. click here.

america west pilots looked liked asses in this video.

You do not have to trust me but you have to pay dues or your out.

The general public and management should look at the other videos on a list next to the link I added and ask themselves, who do I want to bet my future on. This includes sitting in the back of the airplane and forgoing your 400,000 a year salary for a 30 million dollar pay off.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.