US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[ROACLT]

Pleaseeeeeeeeee, by all means present the mowrey doh c n r's list to the company again so we can all move forward in a federal court of law.

When there is a ratified contract, you will be as free as anybody in this country to file a lawsuit, but it won't be until then and your legal challenge will be that it breached "Good Faith". It will have nothing to do with Nicalou. Pleeeeeeeeeeasssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeee educate yourself on that issue. Your union will not be hamstrung to defend itself next time around. Good luck proving the union acted outside of a "wide range of reasonableness" with the mountain of evidence and history that can be used to defend a longevity based integration. A "Wide Range" is exactly that and there is a reason that DFR suits are very unsuccessful. The West pilots drew a good judge but the law finally caught up to the case.

As stated before, after the precedent of this ruling, good luck with the huge retainer you will need to get any serious legal help next time.

 

[hp_fa]

That is odd seeing as how HP-FA asured us that Wake wrote the book" was "very thorough" make "strong "findings of fact.
If he wrote the book he must not have read it lately....or is he fishing buddies with G. NIC

NPJB

If you are going to quote me, do it correctly. Siegel, the company's attorney, wrote the book. As for the other two statements Judge Wake was both thurough and did write a strong findings of fact.

 

[nic4us]

I guess since you guys never had a real retirement plan, duy rigs ar other niceties, you wouldn't know what it's like to watch your union just give them away without a membership vote. The NIC was only the final, albeit pretty huge, straw.

My DOH was well before 2005. How about yours? You're furloughed, right? You shouldn't get to take someone's job that's still on the property, even if he was hired AFTER 2005. There, how do YOU like reality?

Oldie,

First, I am not furloughed, I am an A320 line holding captain. My DOH at AWA was well before 2005. Have to work weekends sometimes, but pretty much get what I want from PBS.

Second, we never had a retirement plan, that is true, but for only our second contract ever, and negotiated under the NTSB loan covenents, we have some niceties. You should remember that 15 years prior to the merger, AWA was not even considered a Major Airline. Our peers and payscales were judged against the likes of ATA and Sun Country, Value Jet and others. Not UAL,NW,DL. So when you and other east posters comment and compare us to what you had 15 years ago, it really is immaterial.

My 2005 comment was a tie to a previous post responding to you. In which I was implying that you will not get the West to back off the Nic and accept DOH, unless you were willing to take 2005 as your DOH.

I do not expect you are willing to do that, nor would I think it fair. But the reality is your side brought unemployed pilots to a merger which got them their jobs back. DOH gives them much more than their job back, it gives them the West's jobs. It simply is not going to happen.

 

[N924PS]

I'm not saying the company has to issue a "statement of position" or the like I'm just curious on why they are ignoring the complete issue. I mean it's in most of the newspapers, they could highlight some links and tell the reader if they're interested read them, no commentary needed. The FA's are waiting on this also, so it has company wide interest.

They have not recovered sufficiently from the party they surely had after the 9th rendered its decision. Had AOL prevailed, a contract would have been closer at hand. Sadly, the liberals prevailed and have catapulted a prospective contract farther in to the future.

Who knows though? Maybe USAPA's on a roll and will win the pay grievance as well. It would be fun just to see how Fort Fumble handles that one!

 

[ROACLT]

You're forgetting the other part of this puzzle and that's the company and how it will view this in regards to the TA/transitional agreement. Will they go along with usapa's wish for doh with C n R's or will they be BOUND by an agreement made and signed and accepted via the TA? I'm sure lcc legal minds are working on this as we speak and will come to the same conclusion as most when it comes to this, but of course there's always usapa's twisted brain trust and twisted logic.

Sorry, but the 9th did nothing but punt the ball and delay the outcome of final and binding arbitration.

2 federal judges said we on the west have a ripe case...2 did not.

The law within the 9th circuit only counts as far as the majority opinion and it is now precedent. Maybe HP_FA could weigh on this? Wake and the disenting judge's opinions are meaningless to the law.

As I have said, I believe your union leadership has already had this discussion with management and you will be hearing shortly on the issue and I think frankly you are going to be disappointed in their position on it.

 

[Barrister]

If you are going to quote me, do it correctly. Siegel, the company's attorney, wrote the book. As for the other two statements Judge Wake was both thurough and did write a strong findings of fact.

Are you denying you were Wake's biggest cheerleader???????

NPJB

 

[OTTER574]

When there is a ratified contract, you will be as free as anybody in this country to file a lawsuit, but it won't be until then and your legal challenge will be that it breached "Good Faith". It will have nothing to do with Nicalou. Pleeeeeeeeeeasssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeee educate yourself on that issue. Your union will not be hamstrung to defend itself next time around. Good luck proving the union acted outside of a "wide range of reasonableness" with the mountain of evidence and history that can be used to defend a longevity based integration. A "Wide Range" is exactly that and there is a reason that DFR suits are very unsuccessful. The West pilots drew a good judge but the law finally caught up to the case.

Sorry, but the Nicalou is not going away and was never on trial. I'm not a big fan of alpa but ROACLT you had that same right under alpa with seperate mec's. usapa was formed for one reason and one reaon ONLY and that is to delay or not put out for a vote the legal and binding arbitration Nicalou award accepted by the company along with a joint contract.

 

[Barrister]

Oldie,

First, I am not furloughed, I am an A320 line holding captain. My DOH at AWA was well before 2005. Have to work weekends sometimes, but pretty much get what I want from PBS.

Second, we never had a retirement plan, that is true, but for only our second contract ever, and negotiated under the NTSB loan covenents, we have some niceties. You should remember that 15 years prior to the merger, AWA was not even considered a Major Airline. Our peers and payscales were judged against the likes of ATA and Sun Country, Value Jet and others. Not UAL,NW,DL. So when you and other east posters comment and compare us to what you had 15 years ago, it really is immaterial.

My 2005 comment was a tie to a previous post responding to you. In which I was implying that you will not get the West to back off the Nic and accept DOH, unless you were willing to take 2005 as your DOH.

I do not expect you are willing to do that, nor would I think it fair. But the reality is your side brought unemployed pilots to a merger which got them their jobs back. DOH gives them much more than their job back, it gives them the West's jobs. It simply is not going to happen.

How well before 2005????????????????

NPJB

 

[nic4us]

there is a reason that DFR suits are very unsuccessful.

that reason being, the union is typically not guilty, and if it is or may feel it appears to be, it settles.

But it is actually very easy to win a DFR suit when the union is usapa. The, we are stupid enough to completely document our illegal campaign, union.

Pass anything other than the Nic, change my seniority number by 1 from the Nic, much less the way over a thousand usapa proposes, and it will be easy to win again.

 

[Barrister]

If you are going to quote me, do it correctly. Siegel, the company's attorney, wrote the book. As for the other two statements Judge Wake was both thurough and did write a strong findings of fact.

Yea, the 9th was clearly underwhelmed with his work!!!!!!!!

NPJB

 

[ROACLT]

Oldie,

First, I am not furloughed, I am an A320 line holding captain. My DOH at AWA was well before 2005. Have to work weekends sometimes, but pretty much get what I want from PBS.

Second, we never had a retirement plan, that is true, but for only our second contract ever, and negotiated under the NTSB loan covenents, we have some niceties. You should remember that 15 years prior to the merger, AWA was not even considered a Major Airline. Our peers and payscales were judged against the likes of ATA and Sun Country, Value Jet and others. Not UAL,NW,DL. So when you and other east posters comment and compare us to what you had 15 years ago, it really is immaterial.

My 2005 comment was a tie to a previous post responding to you. In which I was implying that you will not get the West to back off the Nic and accept DOH, unless you were willing to take 2005 as your DOH.

I do not expect you are willing to do that, nor would I think it fair. But the reality is your side brought unemployed pilots to a merger which got them their jobs back. DOH gives them much more than their job back, it gives them the West's jobs. It simply is not going to happen.

East pilots were going back due to attrition and it had nothing to do with the merger. It was clear when the companies were reporting separate earnings where the value of the company was and the East pilots would be working for a stronger company if it weren't for the AZ boat anchor. It was clear in the earnings as it is any article assessing US Airways value in a merger. Nary an article mentions Phoenix or AWA leisure markets. It's always what US Airways East coast traffic, SE hub, and PHL international gateway provides to a company like UAL or AMR. West pilots ought top be grateful they attached their stars to US Airways and the fact it presents long term career protection.

 

[Black Swan]

I don't know what you think that is, but that is a judicial shot across the bow. Judges don't make belligerent statements like pilots on webboards do, they speak in muted tones. That is about as frank as you will ever get from a judge or judges. They are warning you.

The judge specifically said it applied to both East and West, not just West as you allude. Read it again. It did not just mention West. So it gives the green light for the EAST to be treated fairly, and that means not putting Joe Monda under a new hire.

 

[ROACLT]

that reason being, the union is typically not guilty, and if it is or may feel it appears to be, it settles.

But it is actually very easy to win a DFR suit when the union is usapa. The, we are stupid enough to completely document our illegal campaign, union.

Pass anything other than the Nic, change my seniority number by 1 from the Nic, much less the way over a thousand usapa proposes, and it will be easy to win again.

You clearly didn't read or don't want to accept the rulings statements or you have piss poor attorney's or both. Good luck with that lawsuit but it is likely throwing bad money after bad.

 

[ROACLT]

The judge specifically said it applied to both East and West, not just West as you allude. Read it again. It did not just mention West. So it gives the green light for the EAST to be treated fairly, and that means not putting Joe Monda under a new hire.

In fact if the East used the NIC, they would clearly be in violation of its Constitutional & By-Laws and could be sued by any or all East pilots or West pilots for that matter, because the Constitution protects their DOH interest too.

 

[OTTER574]

The law within the 9th circuit only counts as far as the majority opinion and it is now precedent. Maybe HP_FA could weigh on this? Wake and the disenting judge's opinions are meaningless to the law.

As I have said, I believe your union leadership has already had this discussion with management and you will be hearing shortly on the issue and I think frankly you are going to be disappointed in their position on it.

Lack of ripeness does not give you a green light like seham, cleary and mowrey will have you believe.

Most would've liked to have been in on the conversatiion between parker and clearly not long ago when united was on the table. What do think was passed across the table? C of C, NIC, Delta money +. Seems seham and cleary went running to the 9th and dropping their pants so to speak after this meeting.

Seems clearly to most that usapa is just as screwed up as it was in 2008 when it was formed. I and most out west will give you all the rope and "union reasonableness" to hang yourself again.