US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Black Swan]

Why all of the concern about how much money we spend? It is our money if we choose to send it to the lawyers we do so of our own free will. Unlike the usapa dues that we are forced to pay.

Are you guys worried that we may get a reversal? Otherwise don't worry about it it is our money.

It you all believe that usapa is going to get you DOH go for it. Let's see that TA in the next 90 days. Is usapa capable of delivering that? Let's see what the company does. Will Parker live up to his word or will he act like and east pilot?

There is no rush on our side to get sloppy with a T/A that is bad. After all, there is the real chance of upside with the LOA 84 pay. I know the east guys are going to sit and wait.If we get that pay, I really don't know where things will go after that.

 

[Black Swan]

You keep referencing the company but you are in for a rude awakening the next time you get to ask a question of them regarding seniority. They will tell you that it only exists because of a union and contract and they won't interfere. I am sure like any company from a cost perspective, they really could care less if it was blonds first then browns and redheads. From a legal perspective seniority is an internal union issue. Your union leadership has probably already addressed this with management and that is exactly what they were told and what you are likely to hear and find out in the coming days.

You know what you are talking about. Very well said.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Glad you chimed in oldiebutgoody. My voluntary donations to AOL is the best money I've spent and IS growing and counting out west. I know you like to post FUD but come on..there's gold in them thar hills when them lawyers get involved.

I've been with 3 alpa carriers handling my cba and now it's usapa turn as a cba. Hard to pick who's more f***ed up when all they do is change the sticker/name on the front door of the union office and send me bills and assessments. usapa takes the cake though on how to try and get out of a final and binding arbitration. LCC company and me says it won't happen and btw enjoy your loa93.

In all you old wisdom man....Please explain how the dal and nwa abritration went? And please explain with your great insight and expectatons of ual and cal going forward? Don't forget but please explain a federal law that prevents the likes of you/usapa/seham/bradford and apa doing what apa did to your fellow union brothers and sisters at twa?

I don't know and don't care how the DAL/NWA thing went. Same for CAL/UAL. One thing you can be sure of, though. If ALPA was involved, somebody got SCREWED!

 

[Crzipilot]

Extremely suspicious poster. Tagged as west on my radar.

Or the Caped Marauder....or one of his disciples....

 

[cleardirect]

Not worried at all. Just thought we'd try to help by offering some insights we have attained through more experience reflected in our higher seniority. That's all.

If you don't want it, don't take it.

Would that be like all of the money you are spending chasing after the lost pension? How much experience does that take?

If a pilot at company A is number 500 out of 1000 and has been there 10 years. Another pilot at company Z is 500 out of 1000 and has been there 30 years who has higher seniority?

I think you meant to say higher arrogance.

 

[cleardirect]

There is no rush on our side to get sloppy with a T/A that is bad. After all, there is the real chance of upside with the LOA 84 pay. I know the east guys are going to sit and wait.If we get that pay, I really don't know where things will go after that.

Rushed??? usapa has had two years to get it right. they were free to work on 29 other sections. Are you telling us that usapa does not have each and every section ready to go.

Sounds like incompetence to me. Is usapa even capable of getting a contract?

 

[OTTER574]

You keep referencing the company but you are in for a rude awakening the next time you get to ask a question of them regarding seniority. They will tell you that it only exists because of a union and contract and they won't interfere. I am sure like any company from a cost perspective, they really could care less if it was blonds first then browns and redheads. From a legal perspective seniority is an internal union issue. Your union leadership has probably already addressed this with management and that is exactly what they were told and what you are likely to hear and find out in the coming days.

You're TOTALLY WRONG. Its called a TA and what the company must do and has already done concerning
Section 22.

The company will not put itself in jeopordy of a major lawsuit forthcoming because of the twisted/out of mainline/illegal seham, bradford and the angry FO club views.

Please man, put your money where your mouth is and present your list to the company, so we can all move forward and get this final and binding arbitration DONE.

 

[RSVP767]

The majority does not get to steal from the minority.

"The Ninth Circuit’s reasoning is wholly consistent with the Seventh Circuit’s holding in Rakestraw that:

“If the union’s leaders took account of the fact that the workers at the larger firm preferred this outcome, so what? Majority rule is the norm.”

USAPA will proceed with negotiations with the objective of finally breaking through the ALPA-created impasse and achieving a CBA that benefits the entire pilot group. USAPA’s ongoing DFR obligation in this context is to avoid negotiating a final agreement which is “wholly irrational or arbitrary.” Pursuing a ratifiable CBA that protects all pilots in their current positions and enhances wages and working conditions for the entire pilot group can hardly be said to be “wholly irrational or arbitrary.”

If the majority of MIGS determine that the negotiated CBA is acceptable, it will pass ratification. If some deem they were not fairly represented, they will have to prove that the actions of the union were wholly irrational or arbitrary or fall outside the wide range or reasonableness.

I do agree, one group (majority OR minority) should not be allowed to steal from the other. Both side should be allowed to maintain what they brought to the table. DOH with conditions and restrictions will allow just that. We can now move forward toward a fair and equitable contract for all pilots.

 

[OTTER574]

I don't know and don't care how the DAL/NWA thing went. Same for CAL/UAL. One thing you can be sure of, though. If ALPA was involved, somebody got SCREWED!

Once again...A NONE ANSWER from the acclaimed usapa union supporter/usapa communications guru better known has.......guess who?

 

[RSVP767]

....Please explain how the dal and nwa abritration went?

It went Relative Position (with a max DOH differential on the order of 4 yrs.) and was ratified into their contract by the majority of the voting members.

 

[OTTER574]

It went Relative Position (with a max DOH differential on the order of 4 yrs.) and was ratified into their contract by the majority of the voting members.

The west is not going to pay for your career or lack there of from the former usair.

How many airplanes did usair have 10 years ago? 400+ How many do they have today? 250 + or -

Pit, bwi, metrojet and the likes ARE GONE and most of those airframes are parked in the desert.

The final and binding lcc list is done and accepted by the company and cannot be changed. Sorry, but no redo and no 9th savior from seham and his clowns.

 

[RSVP767]

You're TOTALLY WRONG. Its called a TA and what the company must do and has already done concerning
Section 22.

The company will not put itself in jeopordy of a major lawsuit forthcoming because of the twisted/out of mainline/illegal seham, bradford and the angry FO club views.

Please man, put your money where your mouth is and present your list to the company, so we can all move forward and get this final and binding arbitration DONE.

Wow! You know......it's very telling watching the West posters heads come unscrewed. Entertaining too!

 

[Barrister]

"The Ninth Circuit’s reasoning is wholly consistent with the Seventh Circuit’s holding in Rakestraw that:

“If the union’s leaders took account of the fact that the workers at the larger firm preferred this outcome, so what? Majority rule is the norm.”

USAPA will proceed with negotiations with the objective of finally breaking through the ALPA-created impasse and achieving a CBA that benefits the entire pilot group. USAPA’s ongoing DFR obligation in this context is to avoid negotiating a final agreement which is “wholly irrational or arbitrary.” Pursuing a ratifiable CBA that protects all pilots in their current positions and enhances wages and working conditions for the entire pilot group can hardly be said to be “wholly irrational or arbitrary.”

If the majority of MIGS determine that the negotiated CBA is acceptable, it will pass ratification. If some deem they were not fairly represented, they will have to prove that the actions of the union were wholly irrational or arbitrary or fall outside the wide range or reasonableness.

I do agree, one group (majority OR minority) should not be allowed to steal from the other. Both side should be allowed to maintain what they brought to the table. DOH with conditions and restrictions will allow just that. We can now move forward toward a fair and equitable contract for all pilots.

One more thing.....sometimes a court will do something like this if the Clerks and Judge
see a problem but want to help one side or the other.BASED ON THEIR PARTICULAR INTERPRETATION OF THE CASE. ...
..
The Court finds that to plead a viable cause of action Plaintiff needed to plead...XY and Z....because Plaintiff has not plead XY and Z we grant Defendant's motion to dismiss without prejudice and grant plaintiff leave to amend....THANKS JUDGE FOR THE ROADMAP...THE AMENDED COMPLAINT IS ON THE WAY WITH ....GUESS WHAT.....XY and z.
The 9th gave USAPA a road map. It ain't the NIC though.

NPJB

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Once again...A NONE ANSWER from the acclaimed usapa union supporter/usapa communications guru better known has.......guess who?

Who would that be? If you're talking about me, you'd be WRONG. I've never been an officer in ANY union. USAPA officers are NOT ALLOWED to participate in these sort of discussions.

The rest of your diatribe is plain STUPID and doesn't even deserve a response. If what you are saying is true about section 22, then why are you guys still paying lawyers? Oh, I get it. You're not paying 'em!

 

[OTTER574]

Wow! You know......it's very telling watching the West posters heads come unscrewed. Entertaining too!

WOW.....but...NO....you're not correct.........

Do us all a favor and call Al Hemenway vp labor relations lcc and ask him what list the company has accepted and will use going forward. The 9th ruling on ripeness does not change this. I have his number if interested. It's really that simple.