US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[767jetz]

767jetz and ocarjazz are getting flight pay loss from ALPA to spend time on out board nobody would be that stupid to waste time in someone else's business if that were not the case. ALPA SUX!!!!

You guys are fun to spar with. Actually it's called Family Leave. Haven't worked or gotten a paycheck in over 2 months. Being Mr. Mom is much more rewarding than aviation!

As for FPL, never received a dime from ALPA. I did have to give up my volunteer position for ALPA Family Awareness though, last year when my first daughter (now 18 months old) was born. Can't imagine where I'd find the time for ALPA work right now. Hey, but maybe when the kids are in school.

Thanks again for caring!

 

[767jetz]

Selective DOH yea that makes sense.UA ALPA powerhouse has lot to do with the problems of seniority integration with ALPA pilots. The process has and was changed several times and possible change in the future
No direction

Oh that's right. Now your problems are UA's fault. Always someone else. Never responsible for your own actions.

Sheeeesh!

 

[767jetz]

You are right the contract is binding on the pilots and the company. In the Transition Agreement, all three parties agreed to use ALPA Merger Policy to integrate the lists. That agreement is binding on USAPA as the new agent. The product of that policy is the Nicolau Award and that is the current system seniority list at LCC. USAPA is free to renegotiate the seniority list but under the pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR case, they must be non-discriminatory in that negotiation.

ALPA was not bound to the Nicolau award and neither is USAPA. The Nicolau award is only binding on the pilots and company insofar as that is the standard to measure a non-discriminatory seniority award. A date of hire list will not pass the smell test as non-discriminatory or at least it didn't the first time in court. If the company agrees to a discriminatory list, then they could be liable for damages for breach of contract.

By the way, ALPA sucks, I will just save you the time.

Excellent summary. Too bad it's lost on the East.

 

[bigbusdrvr]

You guys are fun to spar with. Actually it's called Family Leave. Haven't worked or gotten a paycheck in over 2 months. Being Mr. Mom is much more rewarding than aviation!

As for FPL, never received a dime from ALPA. I did have to give up my volunteer position for ALPA Family Awareness though, last year when my first daughter (now 18 months old) was born. Can't imagine where I'd find the time for ALPA work right now. Hey, but maybe when the kids are in school.

Thanks again for caring!

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Hopefully when its time to watch you daughter graduate, or walk down the matrimonial isle, you will be on reserve with no seniority to get the days off you need because you were slotted in junior to a jetblue pilot that hassent gotten out of grade school as of today.....

Naaa.....I wouldnt wish such a fate on anyone........

Enjoy your time off, I cant wait for the continental proposal.......

 

[767jetz]

Before you all go there, I already know, Nicolau was senile, Wake has no understanding of the law, the jury was corrupt, etc,etc,etc,

Don't forget ALPA Sux.

 

[nic4us]

However there are plenty of times I'm up late (or early) rocking my 9 week old daughter to sleep,

Congratulations,

when all is said and done, that is the "gold standard" of success.

 

[bigbusdrvr]

Don't forget ALPA Sux.

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I knew we could find common ground.....

 

[767jetz]

How about we let the company draft what they think is a fair contract and we just accept whatever they put down. Would you consider that to be a fair way of doing things?

I had to laugh at this. Sounds like a good idea. Agree to let a third party decide what's fair. Oh! Wait! That's been done already, and we all know how well the East sticks to it's agreements.

 

[cleardirect]

Believe what you want. A fair list will not stand a Rakestraw DFR reversal. But I'm sure you can find a lawyer who will take your money. No-bump, no-flush. It's in the TA. It will be immortalized in our contract. Modify that at your own peril, if we don't have a contract in 5 years. If you got to grasp at straws like you're now doing, you really have to be getting desperate.

Rant and rave, rant and rave. If the east manages to get anything other than the Nicolau implemented you will set precedent. Precedent that we will than use when the west is the majority.

If usapa manages to get a contract. The next contract that comes due the west will be the majority. We will then have all of you junior guys still here in our control. We will decide what is fair and pass it by a majority. Lee Seham has said many time seniority can be negotitated even after implementation.

The west will decide what is fair. That is the Nicolau. We will pass it and you will have to find out the legal dealing of trying to sue for DFR. Get it now loss it later. You had better hope those senior guy that are out of here in 5 years do leave you to the west wrath.

"Seniority is like a crew meal". Lee Seham. Do you guys still have crew meals? We do.

 

[LSS]

If I were USAPA, I would actively court west involvement in crafting a solution, if for no other reason than to create cover and plausible deniability. Of course that would be unprecedented wisdom and rationality, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

luvn...

I think that is an excellent idea! Why don't you contact your Rep and volunteer to get involved!

 

[767jetz]

I am in a real union that has actually has national unity and its sad, myself and many of my union brothers exceed your wages. I happen to have a college education but it was not a requirement for the job, and my H.S. educated buddies and I far out earn all but maybe the top 10% of pilots...

Really? That's great. My wife as well. And her co-workers, many of whom are lawyers AND part of her union seem to understand the uniqueness of our profession. They all seem to agree that the East is out to lunch with DOH dreams in this particular case and their desires to avoid binding arbitration. What's your point?
.

Most of my friends are not airline people and when I have discussed the US Airways situation, they are 100% behind the concept of DOH.

So, your so called friends, "regular working people" are getting a completely distorted view from you or you are fibbing.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I'm certain the people you talk to are not getting the whole truth, just the selective parts from USAPA's propaganda material.

In my case I don't even have to do much explaining at all. People I talk to from all walks of life who know the WHOLE truth just understand that DOH is not a universal "gold standard" in our profession and each integration turns on it's own facts and circumstances.

But honestly, put your money where your mouth is. Pass that DOH contract and see where it gets you. Then we can talk for another 100 pages about what unfolds next.

 

[nic4us]

Request for en banc hearing already filed with the 9th.

Case still sitting in the 9th circuit. Not dismissed yet. usapa still technically under federal injunction. Will be for some time.

More later as news of the fake union unfolds!

 

[767jetz]

If the east manages to get anything other than the Nicolau implemented you will set precedent. Precedent that we will than use when the west is the majority.

If I were an East pilot with more than 5 years left I'd be very worried about what USAPA is trying to do, for this very reason. And if they think they can escape the consequences through a merger, they should consider what APA or ALPA would do to them especially if the West makes inroads now. That precedent will remain and cause the seniority windfall to be rectified in a punitive manner by the West or sooner by your next union and CBA.

 

[767jetz]

Request for en banc hearing already filed with the 9th.

Case still sitting in the 9th circuit. Not dismissed yet. usapa still technically under federal injunction. Will be for some time.

More later as news of the fake union unfolds!

Wow! Is this true? What's the source? Please keep us informed.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Request for en banc hearing already filed with the 9th.

Case still sitting in the 9th circuit. Not dismissed yet. usapa still technically under federal injunction. Will be for some time.

More later as news of the fake union unfolds!

Keep dreaming, but it ain't gonna happen.