US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/20- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES
- Thread starter Richard
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Two questions I pose to the US pilot group:
1.- What is the language in your contract for seating capacity that is considered mainline work?
2.- Why is it that in CLT mainline pilots are not operating the 900 series equipment of 86 seaters?
Mainline customer service agents would like to know as all 900 equipment is being handled by EN and we are losing ALOT of mainline jobs because of this. Out of terminal E in CLT there are over 35 flights being handled by a non-represented employees.
We would all like this recognized and answered.
DEX
1.- What is the language in your contract for seating capacity that is considered mainline work?
2.- Why is it that in CLT mainline pilots are not operating the 900 series equipment of 86 seaters?
Mainline customer service agents would like to know as all 900 equipment is being handled by EN and we are losing ALOT of mainline jobs because of this. Out of terminal E in CLT there are over 35 flights being handled by a non-represented employees.
We would all like this recognized and answered.
DEX
AweDog,
I would be happy too. First, remember that the Pan Am pilots had no contractual protections whatsoever and Delta could have stapled the whole group to the bottom of the list and they couldn't have done anything about it. So what did Delta actually do?
They integrated the Pan Am pilots in a status and category integration with their A-310 captains going in with 767 captains and 727 captains going in with the 727 and MD-88 captains. The first officers and second officers were treated the same way. Additionally, after a request by the Pan Am pilots, Delta ALPA agreed to take an additional 200 pilots that were not needed to fly the equipment they brought over. After the Pan Am integration, Delta ended up furloughing several hundred pilots and most of them were original Delta new hires and not Pan Am pilots.
Later, when Delta got rid of the last 727's, Delta ALPA forced the company to either upgrade the PFE second officers or give them personal leave until they obtained the flying time necessary to get their ATP. These pilots were then given an extended training course due to their lack of experience in control seat positions. The contract that they brought over from Pan Am explicitly said that if there were no second officer positions, then those PFE's would be fired. So Delta ALPA treated them better than their own pilots did.
Finally, the most junior Pan Am pilot on the property is an international 767ER captain flying the same international routes that he brought over from Pan Am.
We sure screwed those guys.
Al Legheny
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- Jul 21, 2009
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Dex,
The 900's you speak of came to CLT as a result of the AWA / US Merger. They were grandfathered in via the Transition Agreement between America West and US Airways. They are tail specific and no more can be added. It was a concession and a waiver of the East Scope language. The West Scope language was not as restrictive and those aircraft had been operated out of Phoenix prior to the merger.
All the pilots agree that this flying should be mainline and we would very much like to see that flying done by mainline pilots.
767jetz
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Now, now, oscarjazz. You know that praising ALPA or using real examples that do not support the east DOH mantra is strictly prohibited around here.
You always add to the arguments here. All I can say is I taught my son and daughters to live up to their word.
767jetz
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Yes. And no. 16% of nothing is still nothing. But when ever there is a payment, such as the recent incentive check employees got for reaching performance goals, they do continue to contribute.
767jetz
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Same to you Richard. Hope you had time to spend some quality time with family and friends today!
What happened to all the 747 pilots? What a coincidence the A310 and the 727 was the most junior. Pure Alpa....
Does everyone realize that they have 36-38 900's already and more on order? I didn't know there was a transition agreement for combined pilot group. From what customer service knows you still operate under east and west metal. Mainline flights will be shrinking fast as these 86 seaters take over our airline. There is talks now that EN will be redoing the F terminal in PHL for an obscene amount of money. There has to be a cap on these aircraft in order for all of us to remain in our jobs here at mainline.
Is there a PDF on this transition for the Pilot group that we can look at?
DEX
Is there a PDF on this transition for the Pilot group that we can look at?
DEX
Crzipilot
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- Mar 23, 2004
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Mesa with more on order??? Hmmm...dunno about that. Think that company might be in a little sticky situation, though haven't kept up with their BK.
Think the USAPA website has something where anyone can see the contract and agreements on the website, but not sure...go poke around there.
The '900's are handled on E con, but they were handled there on C for awhile. and if you notice, the 900's left C for E and the 170 / 175's went to C from E. Think it had more to do with the 900's having stairs and not always needing a jetway.
Either way, those 900's haven't increased in size, and if anything have decreased in the past year, than what they were for the past 3 or more out of CLT. Not really seeing how it's costing ML agent jobs currently. In the past, sure, it cost everyone jobs.....
BoeingBoy
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- Nov 9, 2003
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It's on Wings under the flight operations link - look for 'Contracts' or something like that.
The big change, although it may not affect agents as much, is with Republic. In 2006 they operated 28 E170's as US Express. That's now 58 Embraers with 38 of them the E175. Meanwhile, Mesa has remained constant with the 38 CRJ900's they operated for HP at the time of the merger.
Jim
cleardirect
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You need to read the TA-8 award. It was the east contracts that allowed all of these RJ's not the west. According to the company LOA 91 allowed the company to fly 315 RJ's. During the merger the west was allowed to bring just 50 for a total of 365. The arbitrator agreed.
A bit of quick math says that the east brought 86% of the RJ's not the west.
I would say that the 315 from the east is a lot more than the 50 from the west. So the west language was more restrictive than the east. I know you guys like to think that you had a great contract and all but look at the facts. Whose contract is the starting point east or west?
The year is 2010 not 1980.
OJ
You never answered the question man : Did the NW guy just junior to you
on the new DAL have 4 more years at NW that you had at DAL???. If so.......
No wonder you "just don't think about it that much"
NICDOA
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