US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Keroseneuser]

No boo boo, that's not what I said.

I want a new contract but if it doesn't have the Nic then I'm fine with status quo.


Quit pretending like you mean something to Doug - you don't. Thanks to USAPA, you're now no more than a worn down speed bump.

I think my posts have addressed both of these issues.

I know not a single pilot on this property east or west means anything to Doug, never has, never will.

At present time NIC is unpassable with anything we have seen, and no contract T/A is coming in the near future. So as I said, you don't want a joint contract anymore than I do per your above statement.

 

[Move2CLT]

Come over and ride jumpseat for a few days on east metal. Discuss NIC with them and get back to me on your findings.

I have no illusions about how opposed to DOH the west is. You don't seem to understand that NIC is equally opposed on the east.

I am perfectly fine with what we have right now for the next several years at least. You might find a few easties that dissagree with me, but at the same time I know a few westies that disagree with you. Not everyone on the west gets a lottery win out of NIC, just as not every east guy gets something out of attrition. The simple fact that we are 6 years into this with no end in sight proves the above.

The fact that you are really really trying to convince me that I am reading my fellow east pilots wrong as a whole leads me to believe that you didnt really mean that part about you not minding seperate ops. I am guessing you fall into the "junior west" I spoke of?

Amazing how you guys voted in LOA 93 yet no one over there voted for it, right?

Just what do you think your fellow easties are going to tell you? That they accept the Nic? That they're tired and done and want to move on? I guarantee you that you'd be the first to pink-panty them, right?

You guys have a strong history of taking care of any of those that stray from the party line and that pink-panty stunt was proof positive that that behavior is alive and well.

And no, I'm not junior west. I've made my position here quite obvious. But if you want to fall back on that type of reply, be my guest.

We can take or leave a new contract. We prefer a new contract with more pay. But that new contract is going to have Nic and you guys are going to live up to your obligation.

LOA93 is a permanent reality in your lives otherwise. Your brethren their know it and should a vote come up, that kitchen is a private place from which to make a decision. Your fellow easties can then come back to the line and act shocked and wonder how it could have possibly passed.

 

[Keroseneuser]

The nice thing about having nothing to win or lose is the ability to look at the situation logically instead of emotionally. Just look at what emotions have gotten you so far...



Jim

Jim that is fine and dandy if the people voting had nothing to win or lose. Thing is any vote that comes around WILL be driven to a good degree by emotion, logic, personal choice etc.

A great number of the west will vote emotionally for anything that contains a NIC regardless of other factors, same with the east against a NIC. Nobody will be convinced of anything by any posts that are presented here. In the end it is bidding power , paycheck and the balance between them that each pilot individually can tolerate.

This 3700+ pages we have done here is simply cyber masturbation. I have seen nothing out on the line, in a crew room, or on here to suggest any change from the stance collectivly that each side has held from day one of this thread 3700+ pages ago.

Seems the status quo has the most support from both sides. People from both sides try to use it as a weapon against the other. Problem is the majority I feel really do prefer status quo to anything else we have seen to date. In the end that may be the best lesson we can get from this thread. Both options presented so far are so bad that neither side wants any part of it.

 

[Move2CLT]

A great number of the west will vote emotionally for anything that contains a NIC regardless of other factors, same with the east against a NIC.

That's not true. Not even by a long shot. Emotions out west are nothing compared to the blinders you guys are wearing.

Your emotions have allowed you to justify living on a concessionary contract for a decade.

Now that's emotion. You guys have been blind for a long time.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Amazing how you guys voted in LOA 93 yet no one over there voted for it, right?

Just what do you think your fellow easties are going to tell you? That they accept the Nic? That they're tired and done and want to move on? I guarantee you that you'd be the first to pink-panty them, right?

You guys have a strong history of taking care of any of those that stray from the party line and that pink-panty stunt was proof positive that that behavior is alive and well.

And no, I'm not junior west. I've made my position here quite obvious. But if you want to fall back on that type of reply, be my guest.

We can take or leave a new contract. We prefer a new contract with more pay. But that new contract is going to have Nic and you guys are going to live up to your obligation.

LOA93 is a permanent reality in your lives otherwise. Your brethren their know it and should a vote come up, that kitchen is a private place from which to make a decision. Your fellow easties can then come back to the line and act shocked and wonder how it could have possibly passed.

LOL, <shakes head> Ok so this past 6 years is no indication of how the east feels, and every east guy is lieing to every other east guy when he tells him they want no part of NIC and would rather stay on LOA 93 for a while. What frigging planet do you live on?

It is simple on the east. IF THE PAY IS ENOUGH WE WILL VOTE NIC IN! Thing is Tempe has NO INTENTION OF PAYING WHAT IT WILL TAKE.

If they do great. I would not hold your breath since the pay required exceeds the companies ability and profit margin.

Until then, seriously, come over and ride jumpseat on east metal for a week and see how many takers you find for NIC.

By the way, if you meant anything you said about being fine with status quo you would not keep this line of thought going. The stagnation must be getting to you. We on the east have been stagnet for a long long time. A little more is no biggie. We have been waiting for the retirements for 20 years, but you seem to think they are willing to vote that away just because you would like them to?

 

[nevergiveup]

Amazing how you guys voted in LOA 93 yet no one over there voted for it, right?

Just what do you think your fellow easties are going to tell you? That they accept the Nic? That they're tired and done and want to move on? I guarantee you that you'd be the first to pink-panty them, right?

You guys have a strong history of taking care of any of those that stray from the party line and that pink-panty stunt was proof positive that that behavior is alive and well.

And no, I'm not junior west. I've made my position here quite obvious. But if you want to fall back on that type of reply, be my guest.

We can take or leave a new contract. We prefer a new contract with more pay. But that new contract is going to have Nic and you guys are going to live up to your obligation.

LOA93 is a permanent reality in your lives otherwise. Your brethren their know it and should a vote come up, that kitchen is a private place from which to make a decision. Your fellow easties can then come back to the line and act shocked and wonder how it could have possibly passed.

Very doubtful we will ever have a vote.

 

[Move2CLT]

LOL, <shakes head> Ok so this past 6 years is no indication of how the east feels, and every east guy is lieing to every other east guy when he tells him they want no part of NIC and would rather stay on LOA 93 for a while. What frigging planet do you live on?

It is simple on the east. IF THE PAY IS ENOUGH WE WILL VOTE NIC IN! Thing is Tempe has NO INTENTION OF PAYING WHAT IT WILL TAKE.

If they do great. I would not hold your breath since the pay required exceeds the companies ability and profit margin.

Until then, seriously, come over and ride jumpseat on east metal for a week and see how many takers you find for NIC.

By the way, if you meant anything you said about being fine with status quo you would not keep this line of thought going. The stagnation must be getting to you. We on the east have been stagnet for a long long time. A little more is no biggie. We have been waiting for the retirements for 20 years, but you seem to think they are willing to vote that away just because you would like them to?

Ya, I'm shaking my head over here too. Apparently Spike up in PHL thinks this is pretty bad. Did you miss this?

PHL Domicile Update

In any event, please take care of yourselves as we all deal with yet another devastating career setback.


Chairman Steve "Spike" Szpyrka

 

[Move2CLT]

Very doubtful we will ever have a vote.

I wouldn't bet money on that.

In fact, I see us having a vote within 18 months on a new TA.

And please, do make a note of this.

 

[crazystnic]

USA320Pilot comments: I find it interesting that two of the three PHL Reps did not sign this update, Eric Jordan's resignation is effective Thursday, and the Friends of Cleary (FOCs) were out voted 6-5. It appears the BPR's new order has the DCA, PHX, and one PHL Rep aligned and the three CLT and two PHL Reps aligned. The two PHL/three CLT Reps are politically aligned with Cleary and Mowery, thus, Cleary has lost control of the BPR.
[/quote]


when I get to DCA on the next bid I will be calling both reps to see where they stand on the NIC...
that's really all that matters.

 

[crazystnic]

Very doubtful we will ever have a vote.

we set our path, way back on this... It is one of fight to the death...
The west does not want a comprimise, so be it...

we fight to the end... and bleed the west of dollars as best we can...

I have never ever made any predictions on here...

Not on LOA 93 or any other matter.

But I'm confident...

the EAST will never vote for a contract with the NIC unmodified.

copy and paste it, save it for another 5 years when this is over.

we have a long way to go... silver, 9th... SCOTUS...

 

[Res Judicata]

Ya, I'm shaking my head over here too. Apparently Spike up in PHL thinks this is pretty bad. Did you miss this?

PHL Domicile Update

In any event, please take care of yourselves as we all deal with yet another devastating career setback.


Chairman Steve "Spike" Szpyrka

This isn't a new set back. There was NEVER any chance of recovering pay rates because it was specifically NOT in LOA93. The whole fiasco was just another diversion to take the white hot spot light off of USAPA glaring failures and to supply false hope and delay. That's it. The whole thing was a smoke and mirror sham. The most devastating career set back was when they walked away from the negotiating table in 07. IOW, self inflicted as per usual. This guy actually believes the west was going to support pay parity after that?

 

[Move2CLT]

we set our path, way back on this... It is one of fight to the death...
The west does not want a comprimise, so be it...

we fight to the end... and bleed the west of dollars as best we can...

I have never ever made any predictions on here...

Not on LOA 93 or any other matter.

But I'm confident...

the EAST will never vote for a contract with the NIC unmodified.

copy and paste it, save it for another 5 years when this is over.

we have a long way to go... silver, 9th... SCOTUS...

You bleed us of dollars?!?! LMAO.

Your union is bankrupt and Seham is circling with his impending lawsuit.

The east will soon be voting on a contract with the Nic.

 

[fatherabraham]

I'd vote for nIC if it comes with 10 year fences, no furlough, and 240/hr for cap...150/hr for FO.

Never,
Would that 10 yr # just happen to correlate with ur age of 55? If so, enuf of the "all bout me" thinking. Am fairly sure we have union brothers who have suffered more than you and I since 911 effects. I have no intention of selling them out! Ten years puts them nearing their final ten years and more $/better sched etc. losing their seniority / attrition is just as devastating to them in 10 as would be to us now.
FA

 

[Move2CLT]

Never,
Would that 10 yr # just happen to correlate with ur age of 55? If so, enuf of the "all bout me" thinking. Am fairly sure we have union brothers who have suffered more than you and I since 911 effects. I have no intention of selling them out! Ten years puts them nearing their final ten years and more $/better sched etc. losing their seniority / attrition is just as devastating to them in 10 as would be to us now.
FA

More east on east arguing.

This is getting good.

 

[Move2CLT]

...and 240/hr for cap...150/hr for FO.

And keys to the executive bathroom too!!

LMAO!!!

I like the enthusiasm kid, but that's not going to happen.