US Pilots Labor Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Isn't CATCREW still an East only system or has the West adopted it also. Reason I ask is that if it's an East only system, nobody on the West side should have access, never mind universal access, to it.

I do know that in the past, before I retired, nobody outside RIDC had universal access. One bid closing committee individual had it for a while, from home no less, but the security features required that CATCREW (or the computer it ran on actually) initiate the contact with his home computer which acted as a terminal. It also required having a special sign-in giving access only to the permanent bid page of CATCREW that was made invalid when he left the committee. Even the MEC members/officers couldn't access CATCREW except as any individual pilot could, and individual pilots can't access all their data that's in CATCREW.

Jim
 
Isn't CATCREW still an East only system or has the West adopted it also. Reason I ask is that if it's an East only system, nobody on the West side should have access, never mind universal access, to it.

I do know that in the past, before I retired, nobody outside RIDC had universal access. One bid closing committee individual had it for a while, from home no less, but the security features required that CATCREW (or the computer it ran on actually) initiate the contact with his home computer which acted as a terminal. It also required having a special sign-in giving access only to the permanent bid page of CATCREW that was made invalid when he left the committee. Even the MEC members/officers couldn't access CATCREW except as any individual pilot could, and individual pilots can't access all their data that's in CATCREW.

Jim

Jim, the west does not have catcrew. This discussion is the first I ever heard of it. These fools will fall all over themselves looking for someone to blame just because they received a piece of mail from Leonidas. I believe the truth is that they're afraid their wives will read it and smack them in the head for maintaining the position they do. They have been lying to themselves and to their families and cannot stand to have the facts distort their perceived reality.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
Jim, the west does not have catcrew. This discussion is the first I ever heard of it.

That's what I thought but wasn't sure. That means that if the info came from the company it had to come from HR or RIDC (that's the group on the East side that handles the permanent bids, builds the trips, etc). Or AOL got the mailing addresses from an innocuous source - the internet is full of info.

Jim
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
That's what I thought but wasn't sure. That means that if the info came from the company it had to come from HR or RIDC (that's the group on the East side that handles the permanent bids, builds the trips, etc). Or AOL got the mailing addresses from an innocuous source - the internet is full of info.

Jim


I guess all that will come out in the Discovery process, if the case makes it that far.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
Read it again reeeeeaaaaalllllll slow....it's not
what ALPA wrote......it's what the 9th wrote

According to the Iron Compass update posted here, USAPA is talking about what ALPA put in it's motion to dismiss. ALPA supposedly did say something about what the 9th said but it's what was in ALPA's motion that I was talking about. Is that not "what ALPA wrote" (or at least their legal team).

oh...yea....I forgot......NOT RIPE.....
disregard all the other words they wrote.

I'll take that as an admission that you can't find what the Iron Compass said that ALPA said was in the 9th's ruling (and yes, including the dicta that accompanied the ruling). That's what I thought - stirring the pot with no facts to back you up. Maybe Her Majesty's legal brain trust does things differently...

Jim
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
Ames,

This wife read it. My husband on the other hand has no interest in even opening it. The address it came to is a PO Box only listed with the company.

As for my opinion of it...very nicely put together, color scheme, everything really well done, pat on the back for Leonidas but if my husband votes for a "Nic" contract I'll be the first to smack him upside the head. He's given so much for this company I see no reason he should give up his seniority for you.

As for this "East" wife...the Kirby proposal is a complete joke, the company is in no hurry to get a contract done and any contract that contains Nic is a non starter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
Ames,

As for this "East" wife...the Kirby proposal is a complete joke, the company is in no hurry to get a contract done and any contract that contains Nic is a non starter.


Well said Missfit. I won't type what my wife said when she read that 100% of west pilots lose under DOH.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
Ames,

This wife read it. My husband on the other hand has no interest in even opening it. The address it came to is a PO Box only listed with the company.

As for my opinion of it...very nicely put together, color scheme, everything really well done, pat on the back for Leonidas but if my husband votes for a "Nic" contract I'll be the first to smack him upside the head. He's given so much for this company I see no reason he should give up his seniority for you.

As for this "East" wife...the Kirby proposal is a complete joke, the company is in no hurry to get a contract done and any contract that contains Nic is a non starter.


I'm another wife who is in total agreement with you! It does make one wonder just who supplied this group with our addresses. If the company did I'm beyond pissed, if there has been some kind of shenanigans by some on the West I would expect someone or something to make them stop. I think that many in the West have/are underestimating the resolve of the East "wives" in all of this, none that I know would trade "a few pieces of silver" for a contract that includes the NIC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
but if my husband votes for a "Nic" contract I'll be the first to smack him upside the head. He's given so much for this company I see no reason he should give up his seniority for you.
You obviously didn't read the brochure then. He keeps what he brought to the table. DOH is outright theft.

As for this "East" wife...the Kirby proposal is a complete joke, the company is in no hurry to get a contract done and any contract that contains Nic is a non starter.



BRENT CRUDE FUTR (USD/bbl.) 87.770 1.390 1.61% 11:48
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
Right maybe I was so enamored with the pretty bar graphs. He brought more to the table than Nic or the west is willing to give him or any East pilot credit for, that's wrong.

The C&R's in Nic were a joke and went away with age 60. He might have been able to make the list work but fell well short.
I forgot how many 330's did you guys bring to the merger? Oh that's right...none.

But yes you should certainly be able to hold a line on that before my husband because that was the career expectation you were looking forward to while flying your "big airplane" to Hawaii.
 
This should get some conversation moving, From the Iron Compass:

ALPA Agrees with USAPA on Non-Nicolau Seniority Option

As many of you may recall, litigation brought by a group of East pilots who previously flew for MidAtlantic is currently pending against ALPA before a federal court in the Eastern District of New York. In that matter, referred to as the Naugler case, the plaintiffs have alleged that ALPA knew of, and stipulated to, the introduction of an erroneous seniority list during the Nicolau arbitration proceedings.

Interestingly enough, ALPA has moved for summary judgment, and its current leading argument is that the case is not ripe for adjudication. ALPA, in furtherance of its ripeness argument, cites the Ninth Circuit’s Addington decision to support its assertion that "implementation of a CBA that does not include the Arbitration Board’s merged list would not necessarily be a breach of USAPA’s DFR." The importance of this admission cannot be overlooked. ALPA, the Union whose internal merger policy created the Nicolau Award, has now recognized in a federal court filing that not only is USAPA free to bargain towards a single CBA without Nicolau, but the non-inclusion of Nicolau in any future CBA does not automatically constitute a breach of USAPA’s duty of fair representation.

This comment can be found in ALPA’s reply brief in support of its motion for summary judgment (Docket 118 in the Naugler litigation, found in USAPA's Legal Library on the website).

B)

That AOL pamphlet is still staring me in the face............




It appears that some think this is just propaganda. Here it is.

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
------------------------------------------------------------------ x
Case No. 05-CV-4751 (NG)(VVP)
SETH NAUGLER, et al.,
Plaintiffs,
- v. -
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION,
INTERNATIONAL, et ano.,
Defendants.
------------------------------------------------------------------ x
REPLY MEMORANDUM OF LAW IN SUPPORT OF
DEFENDANTS’ MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT
James L. Linsey
Joshua J. Ellison
COHEN,WEISS AND SIMON LLP
330 West 42nd Street, 25th Floor
New York, New York 10036
Telephone: (212) 563-4100
Facsimile: (212) 695-5436
Clay Warner
Air Line Pilots Association, International
Legal Department
535 Herndon Parkway
Herndon, VA 22070-1169
Telephone: (703) 689-4393
Facsimile: (703) 481-2478
Attorneys for Defendants Air Line Pilots
Association, International, and Duane E.
Woerth

From Page (8)

Case 1:05-cv-04751-NG -VVP Document 118 Filed 06/25/10 Page 13 of 37

Here, the Plaintiffs’ claims are even weaker than the claims of the America West pilots that the Ninth Circuit held were unripe. While USAPA’s refusal to negotiate a CBA incorporating the merged seniority list resulted in actual furloughs of some America West pilots that would not otherwise have occurred, here, the Plaintiffs may be injured only if (i) USAPA agrees to violate its constitution by implementing the Arbitration Board’s merged seniority list as part of a new comprehensive collective bargaining agreement, (ii) the US Airways pilots agree
by majority vote to ratify that new collective bargaining agreement,10 and (iii) the list ism implemented without any conditions to alleviate or eliminate the perceived negative effect on the
9 See USAPA Constitution and Bylaws, Exhibit A to the Supplemental Declaration of James L. Linsey (“Supp.
Linsey Decl.”), at 8, § 8.D and 25, § 5.A.3.
10 The court in Addington noted that “[a]dditionally, USAPA's final proposal may yet be one that does not work
the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if that proposal is not the Nicolau Award,” and thus the implementation of a
CBA that does not include the Arbitration Board’s merged list would not necessarily be a breach of USAPA’s DFR.
2010 WL 2220058 at *5.

Plaintiffs. Indeed, such an action by USAPA and the US Airways pilots would be a superseding cause breaking any chain of causation emanating from ALPA’s alleged DFR breach. See Ramey v. Dist. 141, IAM, 473 F.Supp.2d 365, 368 (E.D.N.Y. 2007) (dismissing DFR claim because unforeseen events broke chain of causation). Thus, even more so than in Addington, there are “contingencies that could prevent effectuation of [the Opinion and Award] and the accompanying injury,” and Plaintiffs’ claims should be dismissed as unripe. Addington, 2010 WL 2220058, at *4.


Yes, the highlighted area above is ALPA agreeing with the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals that: The implementation of a CBA that does not include the Arbitration Board’s merged list would not necessarily be a breach of USAPA’s DFR.

So Says ALPA.
 
Right maybe I was so enamored with the pretty bar graphs. He brought more to the table than Nic or the west is willing to give him or any East pilot credit for, that's wrong.

The C&R's in Nic were a joke and went away with age 60. He might have been able to make the list work but fell well short.
I forgot how many 330's did you guys bring to the merger? Oh that's right...none.

But yes you should certainly be able to hold a line on that before my husband because that was the career expectation you were looking forward to while flying your "big airplane" to Hawaii.
Does your family ever discuss the legal, moral, and ethical practice of honoring your commitments made via contracts, covenants, or by word of mouth agreements? Is there any correlation between a person who refuses to honor one type of contract, say a transition agreement, because he doesn’t want to be bound to its requirements and his personal integrity to honor the agreements and covenants he might make in other areas of his life? It seems logical that once a person begins to view agreements as though they don’t apply to them based on a narcissistic viewpoint, he might decide that he is above honoring any and all commitments he has made; the domino effect if you will.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people
I'm another wife who is in total agreement with you! It does make one wonder just who supplied this group with our addresses. If the company did I'm beyond pissed, if there has been some kind of shenanigans by some on the West I would expect someone or something to make them stop.

Hey PI BRAT!!!

You asked "what Hissy fit??!!!"

How's this? They received some mail they didn't specifically ask for....something that happens several times every single day and they have a MELT DOWN.

Now juxtapose a mailing next to what the East has foisted upon west pilots and THEIR wives. The list of abuse and illegalities is far to long to list.


"MAKE THEM STOP!!!!" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Give me a freakin' break. Your husband is lucky to have a JOB at all. There is no disputing that fact.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
Not for nothing, didn't a west pilot recently marry a senior executive vice president of People and Communications? Wasn't said pilot that married Sr. VP also ex alpa? Hmmmmm


Elise Eberwein and Russ Webber - Our Wedding Website - Welcome

We're Getting Married!
Welcome to our wedding website. We are so excited to be
celebrating our nuptials in Park City, Utah. Here you'll find all
of the information you need to know about the wedding festivities.

Park City, Utah, is one of our favorite places: It’s a quaint
yet refined town, with fun activities in beautiful scenery year
round. Set in the mountains 30 minutes outside Salt Lake City, it
was the site of the 2002 Winter Olympics and annually hosts the
Sundance Film Festival.


Hope you can join us on March 6, 2010!

A Personal Wedding Website powered by WeddingWindow.com | © 2010 All Rights Reserved
Design Image © 2010 Maring Photography

From Holly's Plane Business Banter.....

Holly Hegeman Editor... Marchl 8th, 2010 Volume 14, issue 9


"No, Brian, I did not run off and get married, although you were close. I attended the wedding of US Airways Captain Russ Webber and US Airways SVP of People, Culture and Communications Elise Eberwein in Park City, UT. Yes, you could say that the two of them are now engaged in a perpetual quest for improved management/union relations."


Russ Webber is a Phoenix based B757 Captain and former ALPA executive V.P.
 
The east wives are on the move with the Stepford husbands! This is too hilarious for words! A bunch of east wives all of the sudden show up on this board and become CONTRIBUTORS no less for a webboard that occupies all of their husband's time? :lol: :lol:

Yeahok... But seriously folks...

Why wasn't the east so outraged when USAPA began sending unsolicited mail to west pilot's houses? No one on the west agreed to allow their addresses to be released by the company and the company had no obligation to provide them. ALPA had no obligation to provide them. ALPA only got my info because I willingly signed a membership application.

Oh, I forgot. My private information is just one more thing USAPA feels it is ENTITLED to.

We're entitled to the opportunity to dump USAPA. Why not take it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
Status
Not open for further replies.