US Pilots Labor Discussion

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To whom it may concern.

Received your AOL material, spent time reading it and thank you for the information about us "senior " pilots. I have cut it into 4" wide strips, rolled it on a 4" tube and stored it for emergency use in the bathroom. Please give me your address so I can return it to you after emergency use.
 
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ps - you guys need to figure out some way to type in a higher pitch if you want to be a believable "wife".

After reading a few "wives" posts I am of the belief that they are just east pilots posing. "Posers", my new acronym for "eastie".
 
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There is a reason why we have judges, juries, and neutral arbitrators to decide conflicts between parties. It is because both sides think they are right. If they didn't want to stand up for what they think is right, they would just settle the matter and avoid having third parties decide the solution.

In this case, it was quite clear that East pilots felt date of hire was fair and the West pilots wanted a ratioed list, but one that was more slanted to them. There was no meeting of the minds, therefore a third party was called in to decide the dispute. The process was fair and equitable, and therefore the outcome was fair and equitable. Neither side got their way. Of course you don't think it's fair, that's why you had the dispute. The arbitration was deemed final and binding BEFORE the process even started. It was final and binding because everyone understands that both sides will most likely not be happy with the outcome. ALPA Merger Policy explicitly states that "fairness is in the eye of the beholder." Telling us that you don't consider the outcome fair is like saying Tuesday is the day after Monday.

It was honorable to fight hard in the arbitration. It was not honorable to renege on your agreement to hold the outcome final and binding. Period. As we well know, the East pilots have a lot of airline experience and they have been through many mergers and seen countless others. They knew full well what arbitration was about and what ALPA Merger Policy means. Where was your outrage when the Trump Shuttle was integrated by status and category and not date of hire? What happened to the gold standard in that case? Oh, I forgot, the East majority liked that outcome so they didn't complain then.

In this case, standing up for your rights means trying to take by force what you couldn't win in a fair and equitable setting. Of course the West pilots are upset. The actions of the East are costing all the pilots a lot money, not just the East pilots. Plus, they are trying to avoid being stapled to the bottom of the East list (or virtually stapled). Gee, I wonder why they are upset?

Every arbitration in the last 20 years has been through some type of ratio. US Air/Trump Shuttle, Atlas/Polar, US Air/AWA, and DL/NW. Care to take a bet on how the CO/UA list integration will go? Every neutral third party recognizes that status and category determine pilot compensation much more than longevity. Look at your own pay scale and tell me what you see. Longevity barely makes a dent in the total compensation. Every neutral third party also recognizes that airlines will change, they don't know how, they just know it will change. Imagine LCC decides to close PHX and CLT and open a mega hub in Kansas City. Under a date of hire list, almost all the captains will be East pilots and almost all the first officers will be West pilots. Under the Nicolau award the jobs will be apportioned very much the same way they are now. That is why lists are ratioed.

You weren't blindfolded. You were a highly experienced group that went into the process with no misconceptions on how it worked. You didn't get your way so now you are attempting to take it by force. Every outside party recognizes this and that is why you will continue to fail in your efforts. In the interim, you are destroying what is left of your careers. Honor? That makes me laugh. If you are going down this path, at least be honest and say "I am going to take whatever I can, so go take a hike." Don't give a lecture about honor.

By the way, I am not a West pilot, so don't bother telling me about my lottery ticket.

Very well said. Merits repeating.
 
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OH Jim such repartee, you have been a real joy to read on the board the last few years.

Some of us wives don't do high pitch. Interesting that you choose to question us. Here let me put up my argument...No really I am an east pilot's wife please believe me...there that work? No? Honest I am, really...
But to be perfectly honest I could care less if you believe me or LSS or any other wife/spouse on here.

I've read the snide little quips by some west posters of how the east wives want a contract...maybe so we can go on a cruise or go on a shopping extravaganza. I just wanted to let them know that this is one wife that is willing to stand right next to her husband in support of him and his co-workers.

Of the other east spouses I know..every one of them is anti-nic, some of them vehemently so.

Move on to your next argument...I think we've covered this one. East spouses do not support a Nic contract.

It's funny how you've been reading these boards the last few years, have so much to say, yet we have not heard from you until now.
 
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Well I forgot I signed up all those years ago and went to sign up again and my email was already in use...so here I am.

and I am married to an Eastie. So whether you believe me...rosyjosey or LSS doesn't matter. Your opinions don't count for much in our households. As I'm sure you'd say the same about our opinions.

Keep the propaganda coming, always looking for reading material.
 
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It's funny how you've been reading these boards the last few years, have so much to say, yet we have not heard from you until now.


Free advice on a winning strategy... Insult our wives at every opportunity. It will be extremely effective and you'll have the Nic in no time. Don't worry about doing any consulting with professional strategy groups.. save your money 'cause I just gave you the home run plan.

Shhh.. don't let anyone know I spilled the beans.
 
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After reading a few "wives" posts I am of the belief that they are just east pilots posing. "Posers", my new acronym for "eastie".

Sorry another mistaken belief!!! Absolutely, positively, Proudly the wife of an East pilot (30 years +).
 
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Let me tell you about honoring your commitments. Roofer comes to my house
and says I can fix your roof for $1000 (this is a true story). Says it will take him
all day. I say OK go for it. He goes up on the roof from 9-11. Takes a lunch break.
Comes back at 1:00 stays an hour. Puts his hand out at 2:00 and says all done, pay me.
I say not so fast. You told me it was an all day job and that it what I based my decison on
as to the fairness of your proposal. He says not my fault. He did not get the $1000
but what he got was "fair"

NICDOA
NPJB

And if it would have taken him 2 days, would you have gladly given him $2,000 or would you have expected him to honor HIS agreement? You guys even think it is okay to rip off a handyman. Unbelievable.
 
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And if it would have taken him 2 days, would you have gladly given him $2,000 or would you have expected him to honor HIS agreement? You guys even think it is okay to rip off a handyman. Unbelievable.


I've hired workers who did well and do to unforeseen factors ended up working more time than expected. I paid them handsomely for their extra time. What about your reasoning causes you to assume an East pilot can't reward people according to what they actually deserve?
 
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I've hired workers who did well and do to unforeseen factors ended up working more time than expected. I paid them handsomely for their extra time. What about your reasoning causes you to assume an East pilot can't reward people according to what they actually deserve?

Try sticking with the agreements you make rather than determining on your own what people deserve. You guys are a real treat!
 
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Absolutely, positively, Proudly the wife of an East pilot (30 years +).
Just an opinion of course, but I wouldn't wish that fate on my worst enemy.

:D

So you wouldn't want your family to enjoy the benefit of a major increase in income? Or do you fear that with a better contract the Mr. will be home more often? What about the families and wives of the west pilots who would be screwed by your husband and his union?

What you or anyone else considers fair is simply an opinion. The truth is that soon everyone will be reminded of the fact that in this country, binding arbitration is in fact binding.
 
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Well I forgot I signed up all those years ago and went to sign up again and my email was already in use...so here I am.

and I am married to an Eastie. So whether you believe me...rosyjosey or LSS doesn't matter. Your opinions don't count for much in our households. As I'm sure you'd say the same about our opinions.

Keep the propaganda coming, always looking for reading material.

Glad you like to read. Instead of propaganda, start with the transcripts from the Nicolau arbitration, then move on to the ones from the Addington trial and subsequent appeal.... A real education on the facts should do you a lot of good. You might care to share it with your "husband".
 
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Free advice on a winning strategy... Insult our wives at every opportunity. It will be extremely effective and you'll have the Nic in no time. Don't worry about doing any consulting with professional strategy groups.. save your money 'cause I just gave you the home run plan.

Shhh.. don't let anyone know I spilled the beans.

Gee, thanks for the free advice. Glad to see you have my best interest in mind. I'll bet you're the guy who came up with those coveted "conditions and restrictions".
 
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I spoke to my Rep yesterday. It appears that there is strong evidence that the names and addresses on this LEONIDAS mailing came from data in CATCREW. Some East pilots have multiple addresses or other details that are known only to the company. A classmate of mine, an international A330 F/O, had to make a formal change on his data in CATCREW to make the company data match his id exactly. His CATCREW entry had a common simplification of his given birthname. In Europe this common US was not common and did not match the name on his ID. It was causing problems when they checked his ID against the compnay data-base. To aleviate any more problems he had his CATCREW entry changed to match his ID.

Another person stated that the mailing address where he received his Leonidas pamphlet was only known to the company. It is not an address he uses with the FAA or any other entity. He is recently divorced and has changed addresses. This new address is temporary and only the company was notified of this new temporary address.

There are many more instances of this coming forward and the only apparant common theme is CATCREW. If it is deterined that CATCREW was violated and used to find addresses of East pilots then LEONIDAS had a real problem on its hands. This is an indication of illegal use of company electronic communications, resources and and Security related data.
There is some serious stuff coming down with regard to Leonidas getting this info. From what I have heard, this is going up pretty high in the FAA./TSA There is NO way this ever should have happened, and some people are going to get seriously hammered.
 
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Just an opinion of course, but I wouldn't wish that fate on my worst enemy.

:D

So you wouldn't want your family to enjoy the benefit of a major increase in income? Or do you fear that with a better contract the Mr. will be home more often? What about the families and wives of the west pilots who would be screwed by your husband and his union?

What you or anyone else considers fair is simply an opinion. The truth is that soon everyone will be reminded of the fact that in this country, binding arbitration is in fact binding.
No, what they are going to be reminded of is this: Internal Union Affairs. And your ALPA backs it up. Nice!
 
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