US Pilots Labor Thread 7/7-7/14 - NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[Richard]

Folks,

As we start yet another weekly thread of discussing the pilots' labor issue at US, I would like to once again remind you of the rules of the board--

Name calling, personal remarks/comments/insults/attacks aimed at other posters are prohibited.

Posting material from other sources without written permission is prohibited.

Posting "flame bait" or material designed just to incite trouble on the boards is prohibited.

Again--while most of you have managed to work within the guidelines, there are still some of you who insist on breaking the rules--and you have the time off to show for your choice.

Discuss the ISSUES all you want--do NOT discuss the individual posters, and do not call each other names........

For those to whom it may be appropriate, I would suggest either thinking through your posts before you hit send, or only posting while sober.......

Thank you.

 

[HPDriver]

Hearing were held today regarding Wake's impending remedy. The following is a very brief synopsis of what happened:


1. USAPA wanted to do away with the damages trial - DENIED

2. USAPA wanted separate operation - DENIED

3. USAPA wanted separate ratification - DENIED

4. USAPA wanted Section 6 negotiations - DENIED

Guess the east will have to wait for snapbacks, oops - DENIED

 

[HPDriver]

With Wake's impending remedy, the only strategy USAPA now has is stall. Justification is based upon snapbacks which USAPA says are coming early next year.

But I ask that you look at the other things USAPA has promised:

1. Change of CBA will mean no Nic

2. DOH, DOH, DOH

2. RICO suit is a slam dunk

3. Addington suit has no merit

4. The west will NEVER prevail with Addington

And now USAPA says snapback and an appeal are sure things. Looking back, they've never really followed through on their promises.

And now we see DEL BY MOD put out a letter asking his fellow pilots rethink their situations.

Right on schedule. If you look at the east's history, you'll find that events are falling into place like they have many times before.

 

[hp_fa]

Hearing were held today regarding Wake's impending remedy. The following is a very brief synopsis of what happened:


1. USAPA wanted to do away with the damages trial - DENIED

2. USAPA wanted separate operation - DENIED

3. USAPA wanted separate ratification - DENIED

4. USAPA wanted Section 6 negotiations - DENIED

Guess the east will have to wait for snapbacks, oops - DENIED

Can you be more specific? For example, was the Motion for Summary Judgment denied? I don't have access to instant news bulletins that don't pop up here.

 

[HPDriver]

Can you be more specific? For example, was the Motion for Summary Judgment denied? I don't have access to instant news bulletins that don't pop up here.

It was very much denied.

Lucas (USAPA attorney) tried to convince Wake to leave open the option for separate operations instead of negotiating a single CBA. This would, in USAPA's thought process, allow them to gain some leverage over the company.

Even the court clerk was laughing (visibly).

Wake was pretty clear that USAPA was to work toward a SINGLE CBA.

 

[hp_fa]

I wish I had known there was to be a hearing in open court. I'd have driven downtown for it.

As for Lucas Middlebrook, I wasn't much impressed with him at trial. During his one "big" chance he got to do one witness as designated counsel for questions and objections. I thought he was trying so hard that he became obnoxious, probably in an effort to impress Seham. To me Granath is the smartest of all the SSM&P crew. Of course Bringle was probably the best and most effective of all of the defense counsel. Not to worry though, they let him go.

 

[Piedmont1984]

There is no indication that LCC management is seriously interested in offering what the vast majority of pilots would consider an industry standard, let alone an industry leading, contract.

So here I am, reflecting on a situation where a new and improved contract is long from now in a galaxy far far away. OTOH, although several issues are as yet unresolved - they may yet be in less time than it will take to secure a new CBA.

First, there is the appeal. Many of the pundits here argue that the odds are long against the east achieving any kind of reversal. Fair enough. But there is also the LOA 93 pay rate expiration issue. The MDA lawsuit, which I now understand may be moving toward an out of court settlement. Such a development would seriously undermine the validity of the certified list which ALPA submitted to arbitrator Nicolau - who I believe is now retired. Which means he wouldn't be able to re-order or modify the list himself.

Section 29 arbitration is behind us. Many pundits here also predicted the same long odds against an east victory in that scenario.

Finally, the pension forensic investigation. Here I actually agree that the odds are long.

OTOH, if LCC is looking at a 70 million $ payout plus a reversion to LOA 84 payrates during the 12 month period between January '10 and January '11 - the total cost to the company may actually dwarf the Kirby proposal. In which case management may actually blink and get serious about hammering out an agreement.

Either way or taken together, all these unresolved issues are compelling reasons to excercise patience, allow events to play out longer, and see what develops.

 

[Pi brat]

Wake was pretty clear that USAPA was to work toward a SINGLE CBA.

Be careful what you wish for. LOA 93 would work for a joint contract.

 

[cleardirect]

Be careful what you wish for. LOA 93 would work for a joint contract.

Now that would be something for usapa and its supporters to be proud of. After getting rid of the evil ALPA. Wasting several million dollars on litigation. Being found liable of DFR. After many promises broken. (Nicolau will never see the light of day, separate ops forever, ect.)

That the best usapa was able to negotiate would be a concessionary, bancruptcy contract that ALPA left.

Way to go usapa.

Remind us again why you are so happy usapa is representing us?

 

[Metroyet]

Section 29 arbitration is behind us. Many pundits here also predicted the same long odds against an east victory in that scenario.

Do you really consider 1600 non paying usapa haters 17 months after the election a "win"?

 

[Pi brat]

Now that would be something for usapa and its supporters to be proud of. After getting rid of the evil ALPA. Wasting several million dollars on litigation. Being found liable of DFR. After many promises broken. (Nicolau will never see the light of day, separate ops forever, ect.)

That the best usapa was able to negotiate would be a concessionary, bancruptcy contract that ALPA left.

Way to go usapa.

Remind us again why you are so happy usapa is representing us?

I'm not, so far everything I've feared has come true. You were warned.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Do you really consider 1600 non paying usapa haters 17 months after the election a "win"?

Did I say win? I would say it's a double edged sword. Revenue coming in, but from members who have their own agenda.

 

[cubfan]

Do you really consider 1600 non paying usapa haters 17 months after the election a "win"?

Metro,
It will soon be 1600 paying usapa haters, I'm not sure its a win but it is what is required in a closed shop. Pay just the germane fees, have no say, and no more complaining or pay all dues and have a large voice in changing all the wrongs. I could see some what why you guys/girls held out, wake has ruled and this part will be over soon enough. Choose not to pay at all, (your right) then don't whine if you get a SEC 29. Wouldn't want that to happen to anyone no matter how our opinions may differ, that would not be a win either.

 

[hp_fa]

Such a development would seriously undermine the validity of the certified list which ALPA submitted to arbitrator Nicolau - who I believe is now retired. Which means he wouldn't be able to re-order or modify the list himself.

I'm not quite sure that he still doesn't have his jurisdiction intact, especially if the Court were to appoint him a Special Master. Think of his retirement perhaps in the same way a federal judge retires. Federal judges still can hear cases and make rulings, they just assume "senior" status. They just don't carry full judicial calendars anymore.

 

[hp_fa]

I was surprised to learn that the germane/non-germane issue may go before Judge Wake in the damages phase. I had (mistakenly) thought the plaintiffs were passing on that as an issue for the damages phase.