Virgin America expands schedule at DAL

[WorldTraveler]

additional flights to LAX, SFO, and DCA will bring VX to 16 flights/day at DAL.

more choices for consumers

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/virgin-america-expands-schedule-dallas-170000568.html

 

[AirLUVer]

That yahoo article leaves out 2 flights to Chicago which would be 18 daily departures from DAL.

 

[Kev3188]

The Cranky Flier weighs in on possible ORD expansion, and also a graphic showing what he thinks VX's gate plotting at DAL might look like.
 
http://crankyflier.com/2014/08/21/a-look-at-virgin-americas-dallas-operation-and-wondering-if-chicago-will-happen/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CrankyFlier+%28The+Cranky+Flier%29

 

[WorldTraveler]

it would seem that with WN's decision to add the Bay Area (even at low frequencies) is a shot across the bow that WN could increase its presence at DAL to counter VX.

VX is smart to focus on the markets it has committed to operating instead of trying to add more.

 

[jimntx]

As a resident of Dallas, I was under the impression that there was a noise abatement restriction at Love Field that prevented arrivals and departures after a certain hour each day. One of the most expensive neighborhoods in the United States is near Love Field.  I don't think the oil quadrillionaires will stand for late night take-offs and landings.

 

[WorldTraveler]

who is proposing to operate in violation of the curfew - which I also understand exists at DAL and which I can completely support?

 

[jimntx]

I was looking at that chart which showed gate 2 in use from 2200 to 2250.  If they really meant that the inbound flight (2200) was an RON, ok.  But, if it was to depart at 2250, I think that is inside the curfew hours.  However, just FYI, I googled Love Field Noise Abatement, and everything that came up suggested that it is a voluntary program--nothing about city ordinances, etc!!!
 
However, a Dallas Morning News article from the Summer of 2013 about noise complaints being filed was totally about complaints filed from residents of Highland Park--which is technically and legally a separate city from Dallas.  That is the very expensive neighborhood I was referring to in my first post.  Trust me, a complaint from HP carries a lot more weight than a complaint from my neighborhood which is IN Dallas.  http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/park-cities/headlines/20130712-residents-file-complaints-over-love-field-noise-parties-unite-to-find-solution.ece

 

[WorldTraveler]

if you are referring to the potential gating chart that Cranky developed, yes, he notes there are double overnights per gate. I don't think there will be departures that late.

I thought the noise ordinance was more than just voluntary.....

 

[FWAAA]

As a resident of Dallas, I was under the impression that there was a noise abatement restriction at Love Field that prevented arrivals and departures after a certain hour each day. One of the most expensive neighborhoods in the United States is near Love Field.  I don't think the oil quadrillionaires will stand for late night take-offs and landings.

The settlement agreement provided that WN and AA would work to establish a "voluntary noise abatement curfew" that would prohibit flight operations between 11 pm and 6 am.   I assume that's in place.   

The opening up of DAL to beyond-perimeter flights isn't (IMO) going to drastically change the total number of daily flights at Love Field.   Nevertheless, one prolific poster posited several months ago that Southwest would eventually have at least 250 daily departures from its 16 gates, an increase of about 100 daily departures over its current schedule.   I doubt WN will be able to schedule more than about 160-180 daily departures.   

 

[WorldTraveler]

Do you have a quote where you can show someone predicted 250 flights/day?

BTW, WN execs (or at least one of them) just commented that they would test their ability to offer even more flights than they have scheduled - which is based on less than 10 flights/day per gate right now.

Given that there can be operations between 6 a.m. and 11 p.m. (17 hours per day), WN may be using its DAL gates more than in other hubs but they are coming nowhere near the point of using its gates to the max.

Even if WN operated 12 flights/day per gate, they could come very close to 200 flights/day.

Virgin will be using its gates more heavily than WN will.

WN says they are using larger aircraft but even 12 flights/gate is well over an hour per flight plus about 30 minutes space between flights on average - not terribly great utilization given how great WN has said the demand for service at DAL will be - and I believe they are right.

Let's not forget that the Wright Amendment restrictions come off in October, not exactly a peak travel month and WN also has a number of other competing opportunities including at LGA and DCA which they must use because the slots will be forfeited if they do not start the flights when they said they would. WN faces no penalty for not using its gates to the max at DAL right now.

There will be more flights at DAL - 200 is not at all out of the question.

Virgin will push its gates as far as possible - and so will other carriers at DAL as well

 

[FWAAA]

Do you have a quote where you can show someone predicted 250 flights/day?

It was swamt and I believe he posted it last October, around the "one year until the repeal of WA" celebrations at Southwest.    Although I don't always agree with him, I believe that he's a man of his word and thus won't deny making the prediction.   Of course, if he were to deny it, then I'd go searching for it.   

 

[WorldTraveler]

ok.... 250 flts/day out of 16 gates comes out to a flight/hour on each gate for 16 hours/day... not a whole lot of wiggle room should anything go wrong... and there isn't a huge demand for flights departing at 10.45 pm.....


but then he also expected that WN would end up with two more gates which would have brought the average down to 14 flts/day per gate but the DOJ and the City of Dallas didn't bow to WN's threats to move jobs out of Dallas if they didn't get two more gates.....

 

[WNMECH]

but the DOJ and the City of Dallas didn't bow to WN's threats to move jobs out of Dallas if they didn't get two more gates.....

You are wrong.

WN only showed how it would be better to the city to award the gates to WN.
They did not threaten anything or say they would move jobs.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so it was only swamt that posted that? or did he resurrect an argument from the past as if that might work this time?

since you're on the topic, perhaps you can give us your sense regarding how many flights WN will eventually have at DAL?

 

[WNMECH]

Back when SWAMT made the comments about 250 flights, he was corrected.
I think he was getting mixed up with how many flights all of Love Field was predicted to have, not just WN.
When WN is at max gate usage, and I don't know when that may be, I think it will be about 12 per gate, or about 192 flights.
More than that will be really surprising to me.

If they get creative, they could push close to 220, but I don't think it will be over 200.