Virgin America Weighs Sale After Receiving Interest

Discussion in 'Regional & National Airlines' started by 700UW, Mar 23, 2016.


  1. xUT

    xUT Veteran

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    IIRC Virgin America contracts out maintenance to Lufthansa Technik which subcontracts to local services.
    They really don't have much of a workforce to worry about it.
     
    B) xUT
     
  2. jimntx

    jimntx Veteran

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    He didn't say a word about stapling.  He said that merger rules were already in the contract.  He was talking about layoffs--such as when both airlines had mechanical and repair staff at the same airport in the case where a merger would make them overstaffed.  And, since AS has been around longer, in any given situation the odds are that even DOH seniority would put most AS employees ahead of most Virgin employees.
     
  3. 700UW

    700UW Corn Field

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    Did you not see where he clearly stated "put at the bottom of the list"?
     
     
     

    That's a staple job.
     
  4. jimntx

    jimntx Veteran

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    Unless you know the merger language in the existing contract AND you know the seniority of every mechanic in both airlines, I wouldn't make rash statements like that if I were you.
    1.  If the contract language is typical DOH seniority merger, the vast majority of Alaska mechanics will be senior to ALL the Virgin mechanics.  That puts Virgin on the bottom regardless, and it would not be a staple issue.
     
    2.  If the contract language is Date in Classification it might be even worse for some of the Virgin mechanics if their DOH was in a non-mechanic position.
     
    3.  If the Virgin mechanics are non-union as swamt's post implies, then per McCaskill-Bond, the Virgin mechanics will be represented by an employee group or by the company.  Either way with no experience in contract negotiation, it probably won't help the Virgin mechanics much at all.
     
    But maybe you need to log off from AirlineForums for a few weeks and rush to the aid of the Virgin mechanics to make sure the law as you understand it to be is followed.
     
  5. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    Your probably right Jim. Hell Virgin is only 7 or 8  years old anyway.  ALK mechanics should have them all beat anyways. However I have no clue if Alaska has hired in the last 7-8 years.  
     
  6. 700UW

    700UW Corn Field

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    Go ask swaamt, what AMFA did to the former IBT AMTs at AirTran, and you will how he and others think.
     
  7. 700UW

    700UW Corn Field

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    Seniority intergration isn't contractual language, why do you think Alleghany-Mohawk and McCaskill-Bond are for?

    Go ask the PMUS and PMHP pilots about that.
     
  8. eolesen

    eolesen Veteran

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    (deleted by moderator) ignorance about the employee makeup at Virgin shouldn't be a shock.

    Based on 3.5 minutes of research, here are the facts on representation & headcount:
     
    The most senior of the 128 mechanics will have 8 or 9 years, and will likely be at either SFO or LAX. Those seem to be the only stations that aren't contract maintenance. Maybe DAL has a token presence.

    Either way, their staffing is dwarfed by AS, and the relative age of the airline works against them as well.

    It doesn't need to be a staple -- they'll clearly be towards the bottom of the system list.

    Not sure if any of the 300+ guys affected by the 2004 closure of the AS maintenance operation at OAK are still on recall or would have bumping rights back to the Bay Area after 12 years, but this could affect things at SFO as well.
     
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  9. 700UW

    700UW Corn Field

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    You can't bump from layoff and if you actually read what was written there are procedures in place to prevent a staple job aka being placed at the bottom like swaamt stated.
     
  10. jimntx

    jimntx Veteran

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    E, once (edited) has made up his mind, you must stop trying to confuse him with facts.  As the old saying goes...Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig.
     
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  11. eolesen

    eolesen Veteran

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    IAM and other industrial unions may not be able to bump from layoff, I don't know about AMFA.

    The wild card is if there are guys who were force transfers to other stations and SFO/OAK were a common point as far as recall rights go. They might be able to displace someone junior on the list, which based on the dates, would be the entire VX maintenance force.

    (edited) can call it an insult if he wants, but the fact seems to be that when you don't do any meaningful research before speaking up, it doesn't take much to see where someone is pretending to be informed vs. having real information to share.
     
  12. 700UW

    700UW Corn Field

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    I simply stated you putting people at the bottom is a staple job, something for which McCaskill-Bond a Federal Law created and passed because of the TW/AA Seniority debacle, which outlines specific procedures to prevent that.
     
  13. 700UW

    700UW Corn Field

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  14. xUT

    xUT Veteran

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    Yea that raise in pay really pissed them off... :p
     
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  15. 700UW

    700UW Corn Field

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    How about the bump in seniority every WN mechanic got at the expense of the FL mechanics?
     
  16. xUT

    xUT Veteran

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    Quantify it, amortize it.
    For a 'stressed company' seniority may be important.
    For a growing concern, not so much.
    How many M&R at FL lost their jobs in the merger?
    Inquiring minds need to know...
    :p
     
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  17. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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    Some mechanics got upwards of 18 per hour increases.  The majority of them got around 10 per hour.  Not to forget the increases in 401K, PS, Vac, F/H's, sick banks.  One Airtran mechanic was quoted saying, "Most of us didn't care about the boost in seniority, just get us on that seniority list so we can start receiving same pay scale as the SWA mechanics".  
     
    Not a single mechanic lost a job.  The only ones that had to change stations were the DFW mechs (10-12) which simply moved over to DAL but none had to relocate their families.  Some managers at AT were also brought to DAL as sups, some directors as managers and most of them have all moved up a step already.  With AT mechs seniority plus the hiring SWA has done and is currently hiring they are still sitting in really good positions.  
    With the AS/VX merger, the Virgin mechs are not represented by a union. They will have to form a group to help represent them during seniority nego's. It can be a group of employees from the work groups or it could be the co. representing the employees. No matter who or what ends up representing the mechs they will still have to nego a combined seniority list.  Not knowing the differences in pay scales I am assuming Virgin mechs will get a pretty good raise when all is said and done. With that said, I read somewhere that the unions at AS have language to reopen contract nego's during a merger, and could quite frankly ask for increases in order to sign off on the merger.  If the difference in pay is not that great (as it was for the AT guys) then AS mechs will have a hard time nego any seniority boost and may turn to the pay scale.  It will be interesting to watch, and with AMFA allowing observers during seniority nego's it should be easy to get how the nego's are progressing.
     
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  18. xUT

    xUT Veteran

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    Thanks for the info!
    Take Care,
    B) xUT
     
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  19. xUT

    xUT Veteran

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    Maintenance technicians positions may or may not mean Aircraft Mechanics.
    There are are a lot of classifications that can be deemed as a 'maintenance technician'.
    The NMB (for UA as it seems their 'classification' requirements are a moving target from carrier to carrier) includes maintenance planners, maintenance controllers and various other 'maintenance related' positions.
    I honestly believe (as there is no empirical data to prove otherwise) most M&R functions are outsourced.
     
    JMHO.
    B) xUT
     
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  20. jimntx

    jimntx Veteran

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    Interesting op-ed in Air Transport Weekly on why DOJ might block the Alaska-Virgin merger.  (Though the editorial does point out that DOJ may not have a leg to stand on here because the anti-merger argument is based on the supposition that fewer airlines will automatically drive up prices.  Tell that to my friend who recently bought a  DFW-BWI round-trip on AA for $69.00.  :lol:)
     
    http://atwonline.com/blog/why-doj-might-reject-alaska-virgin-america-merger?NL=ATW-04&Issue=ATW-04_20160411_ATW-04_810&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_6&utm_rid=CPEN1000001734009&utm_campaign=5551&utm_medium=email&elq2=b1c82de7c738474880948c9d294bda50
     
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