Virgin America Weighs Sale After Receiving Interest

[eolesen]

IAM and other industrial unions may not be able to bump from layoff, I don't know about AMFA.

The wild card is if there are guys who were force transfers to other stations and SFO/OAK were a common point as far as recall rights go. They might be able to displace someone junior on the list, which based on the dates, would be the entire VX maintenance force.

(edited) can call it an insult if he wants, but the fact seems to be that when you don't do any meaningful research before speaking up, it doesn't take much to see where someone is pretending to be informed vs. having real information to share.

 

[700UW]

I simply stated you putting people at the bottom is a staple job, something for which McCaskill-Bond a Federal Law created and passed because of the TW/AA Seniority debacle, which outlines specific procedures to prevent that.

 

[700UW]

Here are the facts:
 
http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x/164186/Aviation/Seniority+Integration+And+The+MccaskillBond+Statute

 

[xUT]

Go ask swaamt, what AMFA did to the former IBT AMTs at AirTran, and you will how he and others think.

 
Yea that raise in pay really pissed them off...

 

[700UW]

How about the bump in seniority every WN mechanic got at the expense of the FL mechanics?

 

[xUT]

How about the bump in seniority every WN mechanic got at the expense of the FL mechanics?

Quantify it, amortize it.
For a 'stressed company' seniority may be important.
For a growing concern, not so much.
How many M&R at FL lost their jobs in the merger?
Inquiring minds need to know...

 

[swamt]

 
Yea that raise in pay really pissed them off...

Some mechanics got upwards of 18 per hour increases.  The majority of them got around 10 per hour.  Not to forget the increases in 401K, PS, Vac, F/H's, sick banks.  One Airtran mechanic was quoted saying, "Most of us didn't care about the boost in seniority, just get us on that seniority list so we can start receiving same pay scale as the SWA mechanics".  
 

Quantify it, amortize it.
For a 'stressed company' seniority may be important.
For a growing concern, not so much.
How many M&R at FL lost their jobs in the merger?
Inquiring minds need to know...

Not a single mechanic lost a job.  The only ones that had to change stations were the DFW mechs (10-12) which simply moved over to DAL but none had to relocate their families.  Some managers at AT were also brought to DAL as sups, some directors as managers and most of them have all moved up a step already.  With AT mechs seniority plus the hiring SWA has done and is currently hiring they are still sitting in really good positions.  
With the AS/VX merger, the Virgin mechs are not represented by a union. They will have to form a group to help represent them during seniority nego's. It can be a group of employees from the work groups or it could be the co. representing the employees. No matter who or what ends up representing the mechs they will still have to nego a combined seniority list.  Not knowing the differences in pay scales I am assuming Virgin mechs will get a pretty good raise when all is said and done. With that said, I read somewhere that the unions at AS have language to reopen contract nego's during a merger, and could quite frankly ask for increases in order to sign off on the merger.  If the difference in pay is not that great (as it was for the AT guys) then AS mechs will have a hard time nego any seniority boost and may turn to the pay scale.  It will be interesting to watch, and with AMFA allowing observers during seniority nego's it should be easy to get how the nego's are progressing.

 

[xUT]

Some mechanics got upwards of 18 per hour increases.  The majority of them got around 10 per hour.  Not to forget the increases in 401K, PS, Vac, F/H's, sick banks.  One Airtran mechanic was quoted saying, "Most of us didn't care about the boost in seniority, just get us on that seniority list so we can start receiving same pay scale as the SWA mechanics".  
 
Not a single mechanic lost a job.  The only ones that had to change stations were the DFW mechs (10-12) which simply moved over to DAL but none had to relocate their families.  Some managers at AT were also brought to DAL as sups, some directors as managers and most of them have all moved up a step already.  With AT mechs seniority plus the hiring SWA has done and is currently hiring they are still sitting in really good positions.  
With the AS/VX merger, the Virgin mechs are not represented by a union. They will have to form a group to help represent them during seniority nego's. It can be a group of employees from the work groups or it could be the co. representing the employees. No matter who or what ends up representing the mechs they will still have to nego a combined seniority list.  Not knowing the differences in pay scales I am assuming Virgin mechs will get a pretty good raise when all is said and done. With that said, I read somewhere that the unions at AS have language to reopen contract nego's during a merger, and could quite frankly ask for increases in order to sign off on the merger.  If the difference in pay is not that great (as it was for the AT guys) then AS mechs will have a hard time nego any seniority boost and may turn to the pay scale.  It will be interesting to watch, and with AMFA allowing observers during seniority nego's it should be easy to get how the nego's are progressing.

 
Thanks for the info!
Take Care,
B) xUT

 

[xUT]

(deleted by moderator) ignorance about the employee makeup at Virgin shouldn't be a shock.

Based on 3.5 minutes of research, here are the facts on representation & headcount:
 

The most senior of the 128 mechanics will have 8 or 9 years, and will likely be at either SFO or LAX. Those seem to be the only stations that aren't contract maintenance. Maybe DAL has a token presence.

Either way, their staffing is dwarfed by AS, and the relative age of the airline works against them as well.

It doesn't need to be a staple -- they'll clearly be towards the bottom of the system list.

Not sure if any of the 300+ guys affected by the 2004 closure of the AS maintenance operation at OAK are still on recall or would have bumping rights back to the Bay Area after 12 years, but this could affect things at SFO as well.

 
Maintenance technicians positions may or may not mean Aircraft Mechanics.
There are are a lot of classifications that can be deemed as a 'maintenance technician'.
The NMB (for UA as it seems their 'classification' requirements are a moving target from carrier to carrier) includes maintenance planners, maintenance controllers and various other 'maintenance related' positions.
I honestly believe (as there is no empirical data to prove otherwise) most M&R functions are outsourced.
 
JMHO.
B) xUT

 

[jimntx]

Interesting op-ed in Air Transport Weekly on why DOJ might block the Alaska-Virgin merger.  (Though the editorial does point out that DOJ may not have a leg to stand on here because the anti-merger argument is based on the supposition that fewer airlines will automatically drive up prices.  Tell that to my friend who recently bought a  DFW-BWI round-trip on AA for $69.00.  )
 
http://atwonline.com/blog/why-doj-might-reject-alaska-virgin-america-merger?NL=ATW-04&Issue=ATW-04_20160411_ATW-04_810&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_6&utm_rid=CPEN1000001734009&utm_campaign=5551&utm_medium=email&elq2=b1c82de7c738474880948c9d294bda50

 

[swamt]

 
Thanks for the info!
Take Care,
B) xUT

No prob. Just wanted to keep the info real.

 

[swamt]

I have been thinking this since the announcement of Virgin looking for a merger.  What if JB would reach out to ALK for a 3 way merger?  With all 3 I think they would have a combined 12-14% market share. OR, what if JB and HA could get a deal done and then all 4-JB, ALK, VX and HA end up later on doing a 4 way merger?  Using the HA as away to get mostly Hawaii routes.  They are all big IF's, but why not?  On the flip side, JB is now expanding their Mint flights rather quickly, more than likely in prep for the ALK winning the Virgin bid in order to remain competitive.  Any thoughts on this?  I don't think even if all 4 were to try to merge that the DOT/DOJ would not allow it, or at least with some minor adjustments and fine tuning.  Or am I just thinking too far outside the box?
 
Note to JetBlue: Why Fight Virgin/Alaska? Why Not Merge With Them?
 
JetBlue plans to expand premium Mint service after losing a bid to buy Virgin America