Who rides on ferry flights?

[dash8roa]

This past Sunday I was in CLT waiting for a flight to ROA when the announcement was made that the flight was cancelled. I asked if the flight would go to ROA as a ferry flight and was told yes. Later the captain said he could not take me because I was not an active employee but a retiree. I had to stay in CLT overnight before I could go home. Is this policy or was the captain having a bad day? I have been on a ferry flight before as the captain said he would take non-revs period. No mention was made of active or retired.

 

[jimntx]

I did a search for "ferry flight" in the Travel Bool which is the Bible of non-rev travel.  There is no mention of ferry flights in the Book.  That, however, does not mean there is or is not a company policy regarding ferry flights.  It just means that no one ever considered ferry flights as a means of non-rev travel which required policy and procedures to be outlined--boarding order, baggage checks, etc.
 
One thing I can tell you.  If there was not a minimum crew of flight attendants working the flight, the FAA says you can't go. 

 

[T5towbar]

I've been lucky enough to travel on ferry flights, either on regional or mainline.
But all of the flights I traveled on, there was a full compliment of crew onboard. Most or all of these flights were repo flights, and I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Mainly, I was headed to a spoke where the plane (or crew) was needed to travel to a hub the next day. Or a hub to hub with a widebody. So I was lucky each time.  On all of the flights, I just had my roller, which is small enough to go overhead. (or in the case of a CR2/E145 - it went into an empty seat or in the crew closet.) 
 
I don't know about the active vs retiree on ferry flights though. The flights I was lucky enough to get on, all of the passengers were active employees. Again, the circumstances allowed us to be in the right place at the right time.

 

[autofixer]

It also depends on what type of ferry flight.  If it a re-position flight and you have the proper complement of non-rev flight attendants and THEY are willing to work as flight attendants on the ferry flight (for free), you can go.  If it is a ferry permit flight you cannot go.   As usual, there is more to the story than it appears; the Captain is not just "having a bad day." 

 

[nevergiveup]

As always , much depend on the airline's opps manual. Reading American's, if you have a full crew of flight attendants and are simply repositioning the aircraft from a to b, then all non-revs can ride.
Less than full flight attendants, just crew member or possibly maintenance personnel.

Maintenance ferry flights are even more restrictive. Got to run!

 

[Gman10]

GPM 10.01.03 Maintenance Ferry Flights. During ferry flights in which A/C flight characteristics may have been altered or flight ops affected, only Flight crew members and persons essentioal to the the ops may be carried.
If flight characteristics are not altered and flight ops are not affected, additional persons (not to include non-rev/ space available passengers) carried aboard MUST be approved by MOD-MOC and the Captain.
Positioning Ferry flights are in-service flights to and from base Maintenance.

 

[lpbrian]

I've been on mx ferry flights with no flight attendants at all. We had to arm the doors ourselves. I think to travel on a ferry flight you have to be on the manifest. I think the MOD takes care of the manifest.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If it's a ferry flight and non-revs are allowed, then retirees are allowed.  Has nothing to do with active employees or not.  The captain was misinformed.  Years ago on a 727 leaving AVL in the early morning for CLT, the airport was socked in with fog.  Visibility was too low for Part 121 (revenue flight) to depart.  But they needed the airplane in CLT, so all 155+ paying passengers sat in the terminal while their luggage was unloaded.  The airplane was boarded with all non-revs  (no ID 90s ore other reduced rate travel allowed....company cannot make one dime on the flight) and the flight left for CLT under FAR 91 more lenient visibility minimums.
 
But non-rev is non-rev.  If you paid NOTHING for the ticket, you are non-rev.  If your parent paid a $15 service fee to fly, THAT is revenue.

 

[kirkpatrick]

>>> Is this policy or was the captain having a bad day?

 
A few years back I was working a flight LGA-DFW and we lost a generator which caused us to make a precautionary landing in LIT.  It was determined that we could ferry the flight without passengers so we did so.  I think there might have been issues unknown by pax and nonrevs that went into the decision.
 
MK

 

[eolesen]

The captain was misinformed.

Perhaps, but the captain may have also been exercising Captain's Authority.

I've been on a couple ferry flights, and in each case, it was on the manifest with a VP or MD of Flight approving it.

Post-9/11, the challenge around carrying non-revs and retirees on a ferry may be around making sure all of the required security screenings are done for anyone not on the crew manifest. The presumption is that anyone on the manifest has already been screened by the company.

 

[chilokie1]

Back when we had over 10,000 employees at the Tulsa maintenance base
the stand-by list for the first flight on Saturdays ranged from 100 to 300. On
numerous occasions they would change equipment when an aircraft was
put back into service. We felt like lottery winners when the F-100 was replaced
by a DC-10 that was technically on its ferry flight back to DFW. They allowed 
all non-revs that were listed. I could see the rules would be different if the air-craft was 
ferrying for maintenance. 

 

[ChrisUS]

I've also been on ferry flights that were basically repositioning.  We had to fill out something with our names and addresses so they had that on file. I guess in case the plane crashed they would have a record of who was on board. Maintenance ferries only crew is allowed. There are times when  ONLY the cockpit crew is allowed.  I've seen ferries where the f/a were not allowed. 

 

[lpbrian]

No. Often when a plane is being ferried back to base after it has been out of service the AMTs on the field trip ride with the airplane. They are dispatched like regular flights. They have to know how many souls are on board. The agent issues boarding passes. Sometimes they are even catered

 

[nycbusdriver]

Perhaps, but the captain may have also been exercising Captain's Authority.

I've been on a couple ferry flights, and in each case, it was on the manifest with a VP or MD of Flight approving it.

Post-9/11, the challenge around carrying non-revs and retirees on a ferry may be around making sure all of the required security screenings are done for anyone not on the crew manifest. The presumption is that anyone on the manifest has already been screened by the company.

Sorry....
 
Not to diminish captains' authority, but the excuse he used then is disingenuous.
 
I assumed that all the passengers and their luggage had been screened by the TSA at the checkpoint.  Did some of them somehow get to the boarding gate without that screening?  

 

[nycbusdriver]

No. Often when a plane is being ferried back to base after it has been out of service the AMTs on the field trip ride with the airplane. They are dispatched like regular flights. They have to know how many souls are on board. The agent issues boarding passes. Sometimes they are even catered

 
They can do that if the airplane is "fixed" and not on a maintenance ferry permit.  Only crew required for the operation of the airplane and its safety of flight can ride on a maintenance ferry.  Mechanics are never required...in flight, at least.