Why is the IAM not telling fleet what was offered

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Solidarity

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Aug 26, 2005
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Question for the Fleet Service group. Why is the IAM not posting what was offered by the Company to the group? They posted the past offers and had us vote on the last offer.....?
 
Solidarity-

I can tell you what I heard....The Company offered around $19.00 an hour along with
1 more Holiday and maybe some improvements in Sick Time (4.0hrs. paid 1st day off).

They want back any language of ''snapbacks'' and ''change in control''. They also want the
agreement to go to 2012. They want alot back. They must have forgotten this a contract made
in bankruptcy and not with profits.

This Union is not to good at relaying information and the information I recieved is through
a reliable source but still not through the union itself.

Thanks
 
Folks since the other IAM thread is already so long I am going to close it & let this be the new IAM 141 thread. Remember to stay on topic with any updates & not make it personal. Thank you.

Thread title edited.
 
Solidarity-

I can tell you what I heard....The Company offered around $19.00 an hour along with
1 more Holiday and maybe some improvements in Sick Time (4.0hrs. paid 1st day off).

They want back any language of ''snapbacks'' and ''change in control''. They also want the
agreement to go to 2012. They want alot back. They must have forgotten this a contract made
in bankruptcy and not with profits.

This Union is not to good at relaying information and the information I recieved is through
a reliable source but still not through the union itself.

Thanks
" cheap suites " boyz won't talk unless told too..........pf tell " cheap suites" to call off talks unless
big al get's serious. We have nothing to lose by sticking with the current contract (2 more years).
I have a friend who works on wall street, he's telling me from behind the seen that Parkers has been told
to get it together. I don't know about the rest of you but during the bk's I didn't get any stock
so the piss clam price isn't affecting my bottom line at all.
If the company didn't need us, they wouldn't be scheduleing negotiation....think about it.
Also for those in phl....Frankie o was active in clt. He should roll pf from the 100,000 club quite easily.
 
GoldenRam
"It is not about investors it is about their wallets, and right now DP is in the driver's seat and the offer that was given in August is not going to be duplicated unless you start taking a stand and it is not changing leaders. I told you a long time ago that this puts you under the same contract for another two years. Now you have a decision to make. Do you take action on your own and make this thing work or do you try to join the 100K club and handicap the entire work group for another two years??????????"

Golden,
You want Us the membership to take a stand, (which by the way we have) however you cower in your position . Maybe IF YOU made

a stand then WE wouldn't have needed to get a new slate with a set of B*lls .
 
" cheap suites " boyz won't talk unless told too..........pf tell " cheap suites" to call off talks unless
big al get's serious. We have nothing to lose by sticking with the current contract (2 more years).
I have a friend who works on wall street, he's telling me from behind the seen that Parkers has been told
to get it together. I don't know about the rest of you but during the bk's I didn't get any stock
so the piss clam price isn't affecting my bottom line at all.
If the company didn't need us, they wouldn't be scheduleing negotiation....think about it.
Also for those in phl....Frankie o was active in clt. He should roll pf from the 100,000 club quite easily.

You can go two more years with BK wages ? Wow you must be independently wealthy unlike the other 99% of us ..

We have plenty to lose by sticking with this lousy contract , for starters , you still have the nice outsourcing language dangling over the heads of many a station , secondly , if we don’t get a new contract NOW , well we won’t get much of a boost when we merge again … to clarify that , this is my view , if we accept a fair contract now that isn’t industry leading , OK we’re in it till 2012 , but we will most likely merge again , and at that time we can redo the whole contract thing all over again to push for MORE ….if however , we don’t enter into a new contract , when the next merger comes around it will be harder to get more because we will have much more ground to cover in the talks .. It’s like if you were walking up a mountain , would it be more easy to just start and go straight up it without a rest , or take a break half way up and then continue on ?


The reason the company is scheduling talks in my view is , well if they don’t get something done the employees would rather see the doors shut , I’m not kidding here , if you presented to me the option of going another 2 or 3 years as we are now , or closing down shop , with all of the hate, rage , despair , anger etc in me , I’d rather close it down … it’s not good for business when your workers become emotionally detached and deranged . That’s why parker is coming back to the table , he know’s he’s taken us to the BREAKING point …
 
Solidarity-

I can tell you what I heard....The Company offered around $19.00 an hour along with
1 more Holiday and maybe some improvements in Sick Time (4.0hrs. paid 1st day off).

They want back any language of ''snapbacks'' and ''change in control''. They also want the
agreement to go to 2012. They want alot back. They must have forgotten this a contract made
in bankruptcy and not with profits.

This Union is not to good at relaying information and the information I recieved is through
a reliable source but still not through the union itself.

Thanks

First let me be honest and state that I’m not too sure what these snap backs are that your talking about , but if their anything like the COC language which turned out to be toilet paper , I say give it back …

The 19.00 top out doesn’t bother me , it’s somewhat less than fair , HEY DOUG PARKER WE’D BE LAST IN WAGES IN THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY , I type that in bold because sometimes you have to remind him what’s fair ….

As for the 1 holiday , come on do better than that , I don’t give a snot about the 4 hours on your first sick day , the company can have it back , just return our holidays to us ….

Moving forward with any new contract JOB PROTECTION needs to be NUMBER ONE … I think if the union can secure winning job security and scope , then the 19.00 top out is fine … I know you guys are going to #### now about oh no how horrible that would be , but I’d trade wages for the job security of the field stations , not to mention it’s absolutely time to bring everyone up to the same wage , don’t forget this .



Some People are going on and on about the stock price , and how wall street has a gun to parkers head , well I hate to break it to you my fellow rampers ,wall street barely cares about baggage handlers and I mean barely …. If we sign an agreement it’s not like the stock price is going to return to 60 dollars so lets be real here . A signed agreement will most likely result in a bump of a few dollars . The reason parker needs an agreement is multifold , first of all he needs to restore an air of clam to the labor relations in this company . … secondly he needs to increase the DOT stats , what the other reasons are I’m not sure …. And as for merging , unless there’s some article of law that prevents a company from continuing to grow because it’s baggage handlers don’t have a single labor agreement , you can expect parker to keep trying , with or WITHOUT us … but it would be easier WITH us ..

Right now the only leverage we have is the ONLY leverage we have ever had , and it’s not the stock price or the big boys on wall street . It’s the manner in which we do our jobs , if we run slow , the entire airline runs slow …. If we decide all bags must go to TUL , then all bags go to TUL … the power is in our hands , we have merely been hesitant to use it , but that’s wearing off ..



BOTH SIDES NEED TO RETURN TO THE TABLE AND GET SOMETHING DONE ….!!!!!!!! DO IT !!!!!!!! OR BOTH THIS COMPANY AND OUR UNION LEADERSHIP IS GOING TO LOSE BIGTIME .
 
You can go two more years with BK wages ? Wow you must be independently wealthy unlike the other 99% of us ..

We have plenty to lose by sticking with this lousy contract , for starters , you still have the nice outsourcing language dangling over the heads of many a station , secondly , if we don’t get a new contract NOW , well we won’t get much of a boost when we merge again … to clarify that , this is my view , if we accept a fair contract now that isn’t industry leading , OK we’re in it till 2012 , but we will most likely merge again , and at that time we can redo the whole contract thing all over again to push for MORE ….if however , we don’t enter into a new contract , when the next merger comes around it will be harder to get more because we will have much more ground to cover in the talks .. It’s like if you were walking up a mountain , would it be more easy to just start and go straight up it without a rest , or take a break half way up and then continue on ?


The reason the company is scheduling talks in my view is , well if they don’t get something done the employees would rather see the doors shut , I’m not kidding here , if you presented to me the option of going another 2 or 3 years as we are now , or closing down shop , with all of the hate, rage , despair , anger etc in me , I’d rather close it down … it’s not good for business when your workers become emotionally detached and deranged . That’s why parker is coming back to the table , he know’s he’s taken us to the BREAKING point …

Let's not get ahead of ourselves by pushing the panic mode like you don't have any oxygen to breath, and let's not scramble for the sake of a pending merger [that's Dougie's problem].

Freedom you have alot of energy, that's commendable. Take some time and breathe, let's take our time, settle down. I see on youtube that you guys are planting 'seeds of solidarity' out in PHX, I admire that. I personally would wish that other hubs would join in more visibly as PHX has. Who can deny that PHX is ironically becoming a very solid brotherhood?

However, the fruit of 'seeds of solidarity' don't sprout overnight like a weed, but it will manifest itself soon enough. Such seeds of solidarity need to be cultured and waterered. It will grow up like a vine and strangle management but don't expect management to be purusaded until the vine is ripe. In other words, don't expect to make an expression, then wonder why your company hasn't signed a contract the next day.

Further, I am in contact with many in PHX and I will second alot of what you say on here is true about PHX rampers being so fed up that I would use the term, 'fully blown fed up'. But let me appeal to you not to come on here and cry about needing a contract yesterday and that you can't survive, that is exactly what parker would have you say. Besides, the class 2 stations and even the hubs are experiencing the same pain but are 'honkered down' and mobilized because we are in the middle of a 'great battle' that will help determine whether this ramp is going to be oppressed for the next 10 years with disrespect, anger, hate for a company, OR if this ramp will be a place to rear a family and be proud of working for this airline. As far as I can see on the horizon, NOBODY IS PROUD TO WORK FOR THIS AIRLINE and NOBODY is going the 'extra mile' because of the utter disrespect, and disregard that Parker has for the human beings that work for this company. It's all about relationships and Parker treats the masses on this property like $20 whores.
Until there is respect and dignity, screw it all Freedom...screw it all, hold your position, with the sword of justice held high. Nobody is saying there won't be casualty but hold firm for the hope of a fair and equitable contact. Therein lies the hope and it must be fought for and taken since management will not think lightly on this matter. Remember, management NEEDS also. Screw them, screw transition, screw mergers, screw going over and above at the risk of being unsafe. Unfortunately, we had to strong arm our District leadership and cast their legitimacy to the sideline since all they do is sing the praises of Parker by talking down to fleet service. But we have been effective in this regard and the rank and file mass is 'solid'.

Remember, your solidarity in PHX, while impressive, will accomplish NOTHING if it's represented in a topsy turvy way on this message board.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
 
Your info about TWA is wrong, they were forced by AA to give up their LPPs or AA would not buy TW.

This was the case for all TWA unionized groups.

The seniority issue went to arbitration and they used a slotting method, according to percentages of flights at their cities.

They were not placed at the bottom and not all laid-off first.

It was the Kasher Arbitration.

Here is a link to the info:

Q&A about senoirity

Kasher Arbitration
 
For all you out there wanting 21 or 23 or whatever per hour I think theres a place in Orlando for that.
Its called fantsey land. Im with freedom lets get some wage increases NOW. Right now we need to find a way to get eveyone in the same payscale than we can talk about other issiues.
The scope part prob wont change much and if it does that usually isnt worth the paper its writen on.
As I have said before the company can at anytime downsize a station and your out on the street or in some station you dont want to be in, just think Pittsburgh once a hub. From what Im hearing LAS is next to be downsized. We have no leverage as some have said, yes we can work safe and all of that but it doesnt matter, and becasue of this stupid split payscale you guys in Class 1 will just accept the fact that you wont see as much of an increase as we here in the out stations.
I for one am tired of being held hostage from you guys becasue of your greed and the fact you voted in this lousey piece of crap to begin with and now we have to live with it.
Im tired of this sorry a## wage I have and its not all about you guys anymore.
 
Nice work 700! We need to make sure that people know the real story, not the smoke and mirrors and talking points that some like to throw out there. I am sure that when this thread rolls to the next page the same distortion will be thrown out again. Smoke and Mirrors, Lie and Distort, over and over again!
 
Your info about TWA is wrong, they were forced by AA to give up their LPPs or AA would not buy TW.

This was the case for all TWA unionized groups.

The seniority issue went to arbitration and they used a slotting method, according to percentages of flights at their cities.

They were not placed at the bottom and not all laid-off first.

It was the Kasher Arbitration.

Here is a link to the info:

Q&A about senoirity

Kasher Arbitration
A very interesting read. Unfortunately, the arbitrator could only go on the contractual language. Notice that the IAM signed a 'transition agreement' and gave up provisions that require seniority integration procedures in event of a merger or acquisition.

I'm confident that the company is still wanting the COC language out of the contract because in case of mergers, it is VERY good language, plus the previous arbitration case provided the US AIRWAYS position, interpretation, definition of that language that is more suitable to a merger than 'bankrupt investors acting in concert'.
In fact, that COC language is another reason why the company is knocking at the negotiations door in the context of 'merger mania' in this industry. In essance, the arbitration case was successful in further defining the company's position on the language. In trying to shoot down the arbitration, the company had to tilt the language towards mergers. So it is.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
 
Nice work 700! We need to make sure that people know the real story, not the smoke and mirrors and talking points that some like to throw out there. I am sure that when this thread rolls to the next page the same distortion will be thrown out again. Smoke and Mirrors, Lie and Distort, over and over again!
you're just upset that we put you in your place last time you came to ORD with all your goofy babble. The brothers, italiens and irishmen wanted to throw you out the window until I calmed them down for your sake.
You come back and toot Parker's horn again in our station, you'll get a 'similar welcome like you received last time.
You used to be not a bad guy before you started thinking of $100,000 and change.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, ORD
 
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