Why there will never be a T.A.

[pjirish317]

To all those that replied. Thank you. I honestly hope you get back what you deserve and we are right there along side you. Granted we will not make the gains that you will but I expected that and hope that for the LAA folks it rights some of the past wrongs done to your workgroups. We all deserve to gain, no matter how little for some or how much more for others. I am proud to call you all my brothers and sisters.

 

[Kev3188]

P.S. Does DA managment read AA forums?

Don’t know if Daily Air’s mgmt. does, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Delta’s do.

 

[NYer]

To all those that replied. Thank you. I honestly hope you get back what you deserve and we are right there along side you. Granted we will not make the gains that you will but I expected that and hope that for the LAA folks it rights some of the past wrongs done to your workgroups. We all deserve to gain, no matter how little for some or how much more for others. I am proud to call you all my brothers and sisters.

The piece that gets lost is that neither side would be better off without this merger. We may not all get what we want but we'll certainly get more than what we would have if we remained separate airlines.

 

[WeAAsles]

Envoy going in to Section 6. Interesting how Gary talks about rumors here and essentially telegraphing Negotiation strategies to the Company.

 

[swamt]

20 Bucks hits 3 Grand? Make a donation?

https://www.gofundme.com/9wqx2-eliminate-the-association

Impressive! Averaging 1,000.00 per day over the 4 days with 2 days being thru a weekend. Keep it up guys...

 

[conehead777]

I have a question for anybody that will answer honestly on the LAA side?

Why do you folks (most of you anyway) hate the LUS folks?


Why do you folks (most of you anyway) blame the LUS folks for your bankruptcy agreement?


Why would you folks (most of you anyway) rather bring us up to your insurance premiums rather than fighting to come down to ours and having more extra money in your check?

The fact that the iam side did not picket with the twu . The iam was quiet about it. The fact guys are wanting to get back to dfw on the mechanic side but instead of utilizing the transfer list aa hires on the lus side. Now that’s not the us workers fault. But the lus management team that was brought over. I do not blame lus for the bk contract. I blame the twu and twu kook-aid drinkers who voted yes for it. The laa pilots voted there’s down and got a better deal. But all we herd from the twu was if you don’t pass it the judge will decide. In mhuo the iam is no better. But the one thing I have a problem with with lus folks is that they do not care about the contract that the twu is in. I would love to have your lower insurance premiums but not the iampf I’ll stick to the 401 k I do not want want the iam to control my money are tell me if I go back in aviation after retirement I want get my money. Plus I’m 54 years old 33 years at aa I would not have a long time to contribute to it. But instead you have iam lus emp especially the one in ord saying you laa foljs need to trust Parker. I never had any trust in Parker. No offense but before the merger yalls contract was way pass due date. And no dates to negotiate. Put Parker was negotiation with the laa unions to get a merger. So no I did not trust him to do anything for mechanics are fleet. Plus Parker to me is nothing but a used car salesmen who tells you what you want to here but not deliver. After bob Crandall left aa management was the worst. But we knew what we had,Crandall left the company In the best financial shape ever. But Carty went thru that in a heart beat.. but now I see Parker doing the same with stock buy backs and not paying down the debt. But Parker made promises he needs to keep now . And give us a industry leading contract. I blame us management more then the lus employees but I blame y’all for not fighting for us. Most aa people want the better insurance.

 

[conehead777]

If you're a Member and you see that they offered 10 holidays at 2.5 time do you think your representative should bargain that away for something else? Probably not.

So by the airline making certain things public it doesn't seem like a viable option to bargain those away to benefit something else.

If the 10 holidays at 2.5 was not publicly disclosed it could be used as a bargaining chip or exchanged for something else within the comprehensive proposal, possibly in the scope realm.

Why should we give up anything the company’s making money and Parker says they will never loose money again let’s hold him up to it.

 

[NYer]

The laa pilots voted there’s down and got a better deal. But all we herd from the twu was if you don’t pass it the judge will decide.

The pilots didn't get a better deal because they rejected their TA, we all benefitted from the merger as the ask went from 20% to 17% because if the higher value it created for the airline and therefore needed to cut less. The change to the eventual 17% also included the groups that have ratified deals deal under the original 20%.

However, Judge Lane did allow AMR to abrogate the APA contract. They didn't do that as the APA agreed to most of the original ask and also ended up with the 17% all other groups had.

"U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane ruled Tuesday that American Airlines can abrogate its collective bargaining agreement with the Allied Pilots Association. The judge rejected the APA’s arguments that American hadn’t made its case that it needed to toss out the contract to proceed with its bankruptcy reorganization. Section 1113 of the federal bankruptcy code allows companies to throw out its collective bargaining agreements if it meets a number of requirements. The judge ruled that American had met those requirements." --Dallas News, Sep 2012.

 

[NYer]

Why should we give up anything the company’s making money and Parker says they will never loose money again let’s hold him up to it.

You can certainly keep trying to get everything you want for as long as it takes to get it.

 

[WeAAsles]

The pilots didn't get a better deal because they rejected their TA, we all benefitted from the merger as the ask went from 20% to 17% because if the higher value it created for the airline and therefore needed to cut less. The change to the eventual 17% also included the groups that have ratified deals deal under the original 20%.

However, Judge Lane did allow AMR to abrogate the APA contract. They didn't do that as the APA agreed to most of the original ask and also ended up with the 17% all other groups had.

"U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane ruled Tuesday that American Airlines can abrogate its collective bargaining agreement with the Allied Pilots Association. The judge rejected the APA’s arguments that American hadn’t made its case that it needed to toss out the contract to proceed with its bankruptcy reorganization. Section 1113 of the federal bankruptcy code allows companies to throw out its collective bargaining agreements if it meets a number of requirements. The judge ruled that American had met those requirements." --Dallas News, Sep 2012.

Conehead777 has been informed of this multiple times and refuses to believe that any group fared exactly the same as any other represented group. He will always hold that his group receives the short end of the stick despite the fact that he’s now earning (deservedly) over $100,000 in pay and benefits today.

It’s called “Woe is me” syndrome.

 

[B737 driver]

You can certainly keep trying to get everything you want for as long as it takes to get it.

Or some in our group when you kept your scope language, are not getting in their minds what full retro is. Want to vote it down, that is their right and conviction. However if it takes 7 or 8 years to produce another deal, will be screaming evil company when they voted it down.

 

[B737 driver]

The fact that the iam side did not picket with the twu . The iam was quiet about it. The fact guys are wanting to get back to dfw on the mechanic side but instead of utilizing the transfer list aa hires on the lus side. Now that’s not the us workers fault. But the lus management team that was brought over. I do not blame lus for the bk contract. I blame the twu and twu kook-aid drinkers who voted yes for it. The laa pilots voted there’s down and got a better deal. But all we herd from the twu was if you don’t pass it the judge will decide. In mhuo the iam is no better. But the one thing I have a problem with with lus folks is that they do not care about the contract that the twu is in. I would love to have your lower insurance premiums but not the iampf I’ll stick to the 401 k I do not want want the iam to control my money are tell me if I go back in aviation after retirement I want get my money. Plus I’m 54 years old 33 years at aa I would not have a long time to contribute to it. But instead you have iam lus emp especially the one in ord saying you laa foljs need to trust Parker. I never had any trust in Parker. No offense but before the merger yalls contract was way pass due date. And no dates to negotiate. Put Parker was negotiation with the laa unions to get a merger. So no I did not trust him to do anything for mechanics are fleet. Plus Parker to me is nothing but a used car salesmen who tells you what you want to here but not deliver. After bob Crandall left aa management was the worst. But we knew what we had,Crandall left the company In the best financial shape ever. But Carty went thru that in a heart beat.. but now I see Parker doing the same with stock buy backs and not paying down the debt. But Parker made promises he needs to keep now . And give us a industry leading contract. I blame us management more then the lus employees but I blame y’all for not fighting for us. Most aa people want the better insurance.

I hope for you guys sake that Parker is not another Carl Icahn, we all know what happened to TWA.

 

[WeAAsles]

I hope for you guys sale that Parker is not another Carl Icahn, we all know what happened to TWA.

Oh Brother now!!!!!!

 

[B737 driver]

Oh Brother now!!!!!!

View attachment 13069

That's was if he ruins the company hope he does not. I think Carthy was the best CEO , you had. Bad management decisions is not the workers fault.

 

[737823]

I hope for you guys sake that Parker is not another Carl Icahn, we all know what happened to TWA.

The irony is Frank Lorenzo was a suitor of TW in the 80s and was interested in actually running an airline and wanted to bring them in with CO under his umbrella. The IAM balked at this and initially saw Icahn as more desirable when in reality his objective was financial engineering, leveraging the company with debt often to only benefit himself. TWA management at the time saw this but the unions didn’t.

Bottom line is thousands of LLCer careers were ended and nAAtives have paid and continue to pay for TWA.

Josh