Here's the real reason why workers need to give concessions.
http://money.msn.com/investing/10-outrageously-lavish-ceo-perks
http://money.msn.com/investing/10-outrageously-lavish-ceo-perks
Why Workers Need to Give Concessions.
- Thread starter Bob Owens
- Start date
That is just the top dog. Add to it all the Senior VPs, Exucutive VPs, VPs and so on. Ill bet for any given company the number is astronomical.
SparrowHawk
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2009
- 7,824
- 2,707
Nice argument! To bad it's totally full of shite.
take a company the size of AA, combine the annual salaries of anyone above Managing Director. The total of that money would give the rank & file worker maybe a few hundred dollars.
Take 60 million in executive compensation and divide it up over say 30,000 employees and you get what $500 dollars before taxes? That's assuming you pay them NOTHING. The argument has been bogus since corporations existed. It's old and wrong, why continue to perpetuate the myth?
A few hundred I will take it,why should we give it spoiled brat CEO's and their bratty little kids.
Ms Tree
Veteran
- Jul 13, 2010
- 9,731
- 9,025
The argument seems to be that management pay is keeping worker pay down not that management is being paid more than they deserve. The perks are not bankrupting companies or reducing workers salaries, poor management is and the demand for jobs. I believe they are distinct. The OP's link is a nice rallying point but does little to address the issues that need to be addressed.
- Thread Starter
- #6
If its a nickel we should get it. Just because they can skim what you consider small amounts from everyone that doesnt make it right.
SparrowHawk
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2009
- 7,824
- 2,707
You should get it? WHY? What did you do to EARN it?
The shareholders hired the CEO and he/she serves at their pleasure. The CEO gets the compensation he/she negotiates just like the TWU, IAM, AFA or any other labor group. So if they're better negotiators and have skills that are valued higher then what do you suggest?
Ms Tree
Veteran
- Jul 13, 2010
- 9,731
- 9,025
I think it is funny that workers (read unions) pitch a fit about management salary abuse but do not do a damn thing about abusive contracts that allow UAW workers to smoke pot and drink alcohol on TV but still get their jobs back. The abuses that unions force companies to accept. Funny how workers only complain about other people abuses and not their own. The sick time abuse I saw at the airlines just from one work group cost the company a small fortune each and every year. Let me know when the unions complain about that loss of company revenue.
SparrowHawk
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2009
- 7,824
- 2,707
Ms Tree,
Sadly, we have managed to raise several generations who have less then one clue how money works. Be it basic capitalism or the more intense side of economics and competing theories of the Keynesian and Austrian schools.
Union Contracts have caused the decline of entire industries when they fail to realize a fundamental tenet of Capitalism, that in order to keep the enterprise a going concern and allow for raises and such a company must make money, ie generate a profit for the shareholders. Workers exist to provide investor/shareholder value. Unions exist to provide workers with the best possible wages & benefits. This creates an adversarial situation, one that requires negotiation. If a union goes to far in their demands they can collapse an industry not just their own company. This was the case with the USW of A in 1959 with something called Paragraph 2b which was essentially a past practices clause that kept union employment relatively high. The industry pattern bargained and as the mid to late '70's approached and global competition began, the US steel industry was feeling the heat of the rising labor costs of 2b.
The watershed event took place in 1976 when for the first time a Japanese steel company underbid Bethlehem Steel and US Steel for the structural shapes required for the World Trade Center. By the time 2b was changed the Industry was drowning in over capacity, unfunded pensions and on it goes all as a result of the impact of a one line paragraph.
Focusing on traditional class warfare tactics and strategies will lead to more Hostess like events and even lower union membership as employees see unions not as their friends but as dues grubbing political entities.
Sadly, we have managed to raise several generations who have less then one clue how money works. Be it basic capitalism or the more intense side of economics and competing theories of the Keynesian and Austrian schools.
Union Contracts have caused the decline of entire industries when they fail to realize a fundamental tenet of Capitalism, that in order to keep the enterprise a going concern and allow for raises and such a company must make money, ie generate a profit for the shareholders. Workers exist to provide investor/shareholder value. Unions exist to provide workers with the best possible wages & benefits. This creates an adversarial situation, one that requires negotiation. If a union goes to far in their demands they can collapse an industry not just their own company. This was the case with the USW of A in 1959 with something called Paragraph 2b which was essentially a past practices clause that kept union employment relatively high. The industry pattern bargained and as the mid to late '70's approached and global competition began, the US steel industry was feeling the heat of the rising labor costs of 2b.
The watershed event took place in 1976 when for the first time a Japanese steel company underbid Bethlehem Steel and US Steel for the structural shapes required for the World Trade Center. By the time 2b was changed the Industry was drowning in over capacity, unfunded pensions and on it goes all as a result of the impact of a one line paragraph.
Focusing on traditional class warfare tactics and strategies will lead to more Hostess like events and even lower union membership as employees see unions not as their friends but as dues grubbing political entities.
Actually, the argument for me is if management's salaries,perks, andgolden parachutes werent so extravagent, they would not walk away rich for screwing up. Didnt HP recently cann a ceo after a couple months and sent him packing with millions?
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/22/technology/hp_ceo_fired/index.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/22/technology/hp_ceo_fired/index.htm
Ms Tree
Veteran
- Jul 13, 2010
- 9,731
- 9,025
I agree that the salaries and what not are unreasonable. How ever some of the contract BS in favor of unions are equally BS. I would like to know why unions do not negotiate management wages along with their own? Why not negotiate that both labor and management wages be tied to company profitability? Management gets a 100% bonus, so does labor.
As a separate issue, labor needs to make it easier to get rid of employees who need to get canned. When the UAW can get the job back for employees who were caught on tape smoking weed and drinking on break these is a problem with the function of the union. That is what becomes the face of the union.
As a separate issue, labor needs to make it easier to get rid of employees who need to get canned. When the UAW can get the job back for employees who were caught on tape smoking weed and drinking on break these is a problem with the function of the union. That is what becomes the face of the union.
southwind
Veteran
Like I've told people, on this forum before, "What's stopping you from becoming a CEO"?
And just for the record, I'm more concerned with the concessions I'm giving to D.C., than I am , my employer !
And just for the record, I'm more concerned with the concessions I'm giving to D.C., than I am , my employer !
southwind
Veteran
KCFlyer
Veteran
Funny thing though...the only contracts that seem to be indestructable are those for the execs. Every labor group had a contract that specified a pension. Those have been broken over and over again by companies entering bankruptcy. The only pensions that remain intact? Execs.
Similar threads
