Why would you vote NO for a union?

[jalbalpa]

Maybe I just haven't heard the valid points...I mean, I have worked at a unionized carrier and not unionized carrier...but go ahead and elighten me.

There is really 1 reason I can see as to why you don't want a union.

The monthly membership dues?

We can go back and forth about your membership dues, personally I see it as an investment in your career...but thats just me.

What other reasons are there?

 

[Kev3188]

This thread has every potential to be very interesting... I have high hopes that it will turn into a substantive discussion, but predict it devolves into a flat spin inside of 10 posts...

Like you, I've worked at both union and non-union carriers. The reasons I prefer the former are legion, but I've posted them many times before, so I'll wait to hear some of the naysayers responses before chiming back in...

Can we all agree to keep this civil? I don't thinks that's an unreasonable expectation...

Here's hoping for a hyperbole free thread!

 

[1Conehead]

Maybe I just haven't heard the valid points...I mean, I have worked at a unionized carrier and not unionized carrier...but go ahead and elighten me.

There is really 1 reason I can see as to why you don't want a union.

The monthly membership dues?

We can go back and forth about your membership dues, personally I see it as an investment in your career...but thats just me.

What other reasons are there?

A union can be a good thing if used properly.
The only union I was with was IAM-AW and it seemed like all they did was keep sorry people on the payroll,which is the opinion a lot of folks around here seem to have.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

A union can be a good thing if used properly.
The only union I was with was IAM-AW and it seemed like all they did was keep sorry people on the payroll,which is the opinion a lot of folks around here seem to have.

Cone,
Just an open/honest question:

With Delta being non-union, who's keeping the sorry people on the payroll year-to-date?


2BnB

 

[Dignity]

well I can tell you all this much.....slackers do not or will not last long at NW, they will have none of that.... and it is crystal clear what our expectations are from day one ...so these ideas of keeping the slackers around are just not very realistic(it does not happen) especially where we work. if one manages to stay employed at NW they have a strong work ethic!

 

[tech2101]

if one manages to stay employed at NW they have a strong work ethic!

Wrong. (Sorry Kev) If they are in the mechanic ranks, they are a scab with no ethics,

or one of the very few honorable recalled that will soon retire...

 

[Dignity]

Wrong. (Sorry Kev) If they are in the mechanic ranks, they are a scab with no ethics,

or one of the very few honorable recalled that will soon retire...

what is honorable.. that is standing up for what you believe in regardless...as long as you felt you have done what is right that is all that matters..

I will wish you and all a very Happy New Year 2009-

Dignity

 

[RobertD]

Wrong. (Sorry Kev) If they are in the mechanic ranks, they are a scab with no ethics,

or one of the very few honorable recalled that will soon retire...

I absolutely agree with you and 1conehead.
How Dignity can say such a thing doesn't happen at NWA is living in lala land.
I can't count on one hand (need at least three) all the dead weight slackers I had to carry over the years at NWA.

I don't have a problem with any Delta employee who does not want a union.
I don't see it as an insurance policy, I see it as wasted money each month.
Unions are a thing of the past as far as working for the members. They are just as greedy as the employer, difference is the employer is paying you while you are paying the union.

Unions are out of control and are nothing better then big corporations are. They are more worried that their investments are tanking instead of taking care of their members, which in my opinion should be their only investment. They have strayed far far away from what their purpose is...and that is the members.

I am for unions, but not the unions of today. How to change them back to what they used to be is the question of the decade. When they hurt, they take it from the members just like the company does but again the company pays us and we pay the union.

OK rant over. Happy New Year!

 

[Kev3188]

Wrong. (Sorry Kev) If they are in the mechanic ranks, they are a scab with no ethics,

or one of the very few honorable recalled that will soon retire...

It wasn't me that posted that, but I hear you. I for one am glad that DL AMT's will be doing a lot of the work now; maybe it'll mean less orange in the A/C.


Anyway, relating to 1Conehead's comment: I can only speak for Ground Ops, but there's no room to carry anyone anymore. Those days are long gone. The concept of featherbedding, is non existent at NW.

The reason you occasionally see a low-performer still around isn't because the union "kept their job" per se, but rather because the company failed to do theirs. If the company has an airtight case on something-and has followed all of the proper procedures- then there's really not much a union can do.

 

[DAL Mech]

I absolutely agree with you and 1conehead.
How Dignity can say such a thing doesn't happen at NWA is living in lala land.
I can't count on one hand (need at least three) all the dead weight slackers I had to carry over the years at NWA.

I don't have a problem with any Delta employee who does not want a union.
I don't see it as an insurance policy, I see it as wasted money each month.
Unions are a thing of the past as far as working for the members. They are just as greedy as the employer, difference is the employer is paying you while you are paying the union.

Unions are out of control and are nothing better then big corporations are. They are more worried that their investments are tanking instead of taking care of their members, which in my opinion should be their only investment. They have strayed far far away from what their purpose is...and that is the members.

I am for unions, but not the unions of today. How to change them back to what they used to be is the question of the decade. When they hurt, they take it from the members just like the company does but again the company pays us and we pay the union.

OK rant over. Happy New Year!

Well said.

I dont like the political position most unions back either. It would make me ill to think my dues helped get someone elected that I dislike.

 

[tech2101]

It wasn't me that posted that, but I hear you. I for one am glad that DL AMT's will be doing a lot of the work now; maybe it'll mean less orange in the A/C.

I said sorry Kev, because I did not want to turn this into a scab/non-scab thing (and you had warned of this becoming an out of control thread).

Back on topic...

I know there were many slugs at NWA (as any workplace). This was not any union's fault. This was the fault of Manager's who did not do their job.

As a former union rep, there were many times when I had to take people aside and tell then to straighten up. Union rep's should be proactive in dealing with members' problems.

 

[Dignity]

I absolutely agree with you and 1conehead.
How Dignity can say such a thing doesn't happen at NWA is living in lala land.
I can't count on one hand (need at least three) all the dead weight slackers I had to carry over the years at NWA.

well maybe it is my perspective working in another area(that routinely and consistently have worked our group minimum crew as long as I can remember.. while at the same time expecting total professionalism, regarding safety first, service and personal accountability, uniform, punctuality, required paperwork/sales) while dealing with all the unexpected issues that arise, shortages, medicals, the in and outs of the daily routine... maintaining compliance/proficient/knowledgeable regarding qualifications including (policies and procedures)...check rides/FAA cabin check/managerial evaluations inflight(generally on Internationals) at the same time...on top of it all!

honestly RobertD I had no idea it was any different for any other department..

I had to chuckle a little bit when you mentioned living in "la-la-land" being a NWA Flight Attendant...because you have got to be kidding me!

there has never been tolerance for "slackers" at In-flight (setting management expectations aside, the crew will have none of it! the level of responsibility is too great when safety is involved regarding personal performance on the aircraft)... because the job would never be done...on the crew organizational chart there is a list of duties the Flight Attendant assigned follows to the letter administered by the Purser/LFA and there are no if's... and's... or but's...including everything else we are responsible(before, during and after the flight).

newly hired Flight Attendants during probationary periods will not last very long with a very high level of accountability in place.. if they deviate from expectations/standards/requirements/procedures (and it does not end after probation).

if one simply reports one minute late and what happens.. (and the process involved afterwards, the long drawn out process)...as just one example.. I guarantee it would never happen again!

they were harder on us... than you? I find that hard to believe!



Happy New Year!

 

[Dignity]

What other reasons are there?

more than likely it is viewed simply... it is not necessary.

the problem with that can be... it is necessary and unfortunately that is realized
too late.

realistically the way it was done before will not be the same, hence the "new" part and that also involves change and where that comes into the picture as well... it will certainly not be business as usual the way it was done prior...(hopefully) and certainly not the way it was done exclusively regarding the other culture either..but more of a mesh of the two groups with a former leader in charge..(and a history in place).

promises minus action equals = thank you... but I need a tad more reassurance...until it is proven otherwise(and a promise they will not do what they tried to do in the past) the not so distant past...and as I try to be a very open-minded person and realize that people can and do change, but for the time being until I see some real action instead of a "promise" my personal opinion is simply, I want it all in writing.

 

[Kev3188]

I said sorry Kev, because I did not want to turn this into a scab/non-scab thing (and you had warned of this becoming an out of control thread).

Okay, I'm with you now... I probably should have seen that the first time around (that's what happens when you post at 0300)...

Back on topic...

I know there were many slugs at NWA (as any workplace). This was not any union's fault. This was the fault of Manager's who did not do their job.

As a former union rep, there were many times when I had to take people aside and tell then to straighten up. Union rep's should be proactive in dealing with members' problems.

Exactly. This talk usually resonates more with the member than any conversation with a manger could.

but for the time being until I see some real action instead of a "promise" my personal opinion is simply, I want it all in writing.

Same here. The idea that Anderson has somehow changed defies logic to me.

 

[1Conehead]

Cone,
Just an open/honest question:

With Delta being non-union, who's keeping the sorry people on the payroll year-to-date?


2BnB

Lately it has been send someone home first ask questions later.
We do have the Employee clowncil and the CRP (conflict resolution program).
It used to be ,well try better next time(without a rep with you).
One of the problems I had with IAM-AW was the foreman or lead couldn't talk to you without a rep. present (personally I don't want someone else around when being told of my problems).