Why would you vote NO for a union?

[Dignity]

The possibility that Mgt. could try to outsource Int'l flying as they did with them a couple of years ago.

that is a very valid concern even today, probably one of the most compelling reasons why most of us want a legal written document stating what can or cannot be done.

the language in the first TA that was imposed ultimately protected our group from overseas outsourcing, because the bankruptcy judge would not allow them to force any term onto our group that would result in eliminating Flight Attendant positions. TA3 that was ratified stopped all of it out of bankruptcy...and that is possible to be lost...(the language that protects our careers).

I wish there was a way to take bits and pieces and set it aside for safe keeping no matter what the outcome..but unfortunately that is not the case. my only hope is simply people take all views/opinions/experiences(all experiences...) and make a decision based on facts, real possibilities that can ultimately effect us all.


the same names have appeared..all over again. people do not have to agree with any of that but at minimum consider what we just went though(not so long ago) and what we all are trying to do protecting all Flight Attendants.

Have a great day.

 

[Dignity]

Let me also add that despite my objections to our union and my predicament as a reserve, I really do love my job and don't put all the blame on our union.

I don't want to come off as bitter. I'm really not. I'm just sharing my thoughts.

PHLFlyer, at least to me you do not come accross any other way... than simply sharing your experiences..people do that when they truly care about their jobs, had you not cared...you would have not bothered at all one way or another...

I can tell you are probably a class act and do you know why that is...you have the ability to share not only how you feel, but also consider other peoples opinions at the same time.

that is the makings of an excellent Flight Attendant.

 

[dapoes]

The"us-against-them" mentality and all the constant battles a union brings grows tiresome and stressful, trust me. AFA will be divisive and split you into the "haves" and the "have-nots", I can almost guarantee it. You will all pay the same amount in dues but the majority will rule and it will be "too bad" to the rest.

Unfortunately the AFA has already set that tone via the recent lawsuit over seniority integration and the past performance back in May 08.

 

[Dignity]

Unfortunately the AFA has already set that tone via the recent lawsuit over seniority integration and the past performance back in May 08.

I do agree it is a mistake not to have integration meetings(no matter if they feel it is in our best interest, legally or not).
however one cannot solely base and form an opinion on that sole issue and then throw everything out the window..to me...that is not very responsible.

but fully understand how that could hamper someone's views, as seniority is such an important issue, it should have been addressed...yesterday....(in my opinion).

 

[dapoes]

I do agree it is a mistake not to have integration meetings(no matter if they feel it is in our best interest, legally or not).
however one cannot solely base and form an opinion on that sole issue and then throw everything out the window..to me...that is not very responsible.

That issue on top of the past performance prior to last May election.

 

[Dignity]

past performance prior to last May election.

could you clarify?

 

[dapoes]

could you clarify?

Well prior to the election period there were increased tension between AFA organizers and FA's that culminated to a very nasty rally at ATL, where AFA supporters were calling out foul language, scabs and spitting on non union supporters. Do a search on youtube and you will find examples (if they haven't been removed as some have already).

 

[Dignity]

I heard the opposite. but will certainly research that for myself! I am surprised you had not already posted a link.

 

[dapoes]

It was much discussed over on the fa.org site., Some of those videos have already been taken down. Are you DAL or NWA?

 

[Dignity]

I looked at the site you referred and to be quite honest, I found six video's of what appeared a peaceful rally in the pouring down rain. (it seems there would have been more attending there if it wasnt such a rainy day).

What I heard was simply people showed up but not a lot because of the...rain

 

[SKY HIGH]

Yet our working conditions get worse and worse. So who has really failed us?

I think unions can be a positive force when their intentions are right. I just haven’t seen it with our AFA.

And, just WHO voted for those changes to those "WORK RULES"? The membership IS TO BLAME!

 

[PHLFlyer]

Like I mentioned before, not everything gets voted on. Many changes are made through side-letters. Contracts are always written to the advantage of the majority, or in our case the senior members, as to assure a vote of "yes". This slant is often at the expense of junior members.

AFA will always stress solidarity when it's convenient for them, such as a strike or recruitment. But they will be the first to throw the minority under the bus when it comes to a contract. I would never join a picket line for my current union. But then again, my career would be ruined if I crossed one.

Those are things you have to think of when voting for a union, or at least AFA.

 

[PHLFlyer]

Let me also point out that when I say minority I mean 49 percent, not like 5 or 10 percent. And in this period of no growth and no movement, you can be in that 49 percent for a very long time.

 

[SKY HIGH]

Like I mentioned before, not everything gets voted on. Many changes are made through side-letters. Contracts are always written to the advantage of the majority, or in our case the senior members, as to assure a vote of "yes".

so, your contract is made up of side letters? HOW MANY? And, just how is that contract written to the advantage of a senior F/A? DETAILS? Those senior F/A's lost contributions to their pensions, medical in retirement, huge reductions in vacation and pay rates. WHERE'S THE ADVANTAGE?

 

[PHLFlyer]

Pensions were taken away by a bankruptcy judge.

Yes, senior members took deep pay cuts but junior, lower paid members actually had to take a higher percentage as written in a contract approved by majority (senior) FAs.

A side-letter took away a seniority based reserve system and replaced it with time, bucket system. According to AFA, seniority rules, excpet for reserves apparently.

A side letter took away a percentage of our East (original US) profit sharing and made us share it with the West (old AWA). Now I don't mind sharing but where was the vote? The deal was brokered in exchange for no fences around West bases (only helped East senior FAs).

AFA could implement a rotating reserve system but won't because senior, majority members will never vote in favor of it. How about a side-letter for that?