WN Mechanics seek mediation

Discussion in 'Southwest Airlines/Airtran Airways' started by WNMECH, Jul 6, 2015.


  1. swamt

    swamt Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    4,031
    It's just no where near the company it use to be. New regime has taken over with all kinds of new people from other airlines at top positions in maintenance. It all started when Herb and Colleen left. when our VP then hired his buddy from US Air (no longer here) then more upper management, directors and VP's coming in from other airlines like US Air, NWA, AA, United, AirTran and some folks have come in that use to be Eastern management. It's has completely changed. We all now see why our long, long termed VP of maint. up and left for a Pres. position at an FBO. Once that happened, some were saying that he was seeing the writing on the wall and he did not want to have any part of what this new regime was planning on doing, and now it is all showing. Very sad to watch. We were warned by many of you out here and especially from some AA'ers. Now we are seeing it and experiencing it. Just to give you a little more insider movements, we've had probably at least a half dozen management positions leave suddenly and go to other airlines which usually never happens. They are usually leaving other airlines to get in here at SWA, not the case any longer, even mechanics have left for other airlines as they started seeing SWA acting just like the airline they left. Maybe all of this has to do with growth in size and just getting larger and larger, but it seems we are now just another airline. I guess being so use to the "old" SWA and now living and experiencing the "new" SWA is a huge, huge eye opener. Major difference from when I hired in back in the 90's. A lot of old timers are also seeing major changes since they came in 30-40 years ago. Some are talking about getting out sooner rather than later with the direction they are seeing SWA going.
    Hey D, just an FYI. Our co. lead nego. is retiring in a couple months and then becoming a consultant to keep the mechanics contract nego's going. It has also been announced he will be retained past the March retirement date to continue the nego's so they are already planning to extend the nego's well past his retirement date. Don't expect to see anything this year as well. Good to hear from you D.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. swamt

    swamt Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    4,031
    Hey D, here's some more straight from the horses mouth. As they (co.) continue to "demand" these rather huge concessions at a time of record upon record profits and the future looking very good as Kelly says himself with the outlook statements. I tip my hat off to AMFA for not just "caving" in and agreeing to the concessions like we have seen other unions do at some other airlines. Matter fact I think it's time to step it up a notch. These mediators are not requesting, asking or telling the co. to quit stalling, they are not telling them or helping them to come to an agreement. They are suppose to be there to "bring the two sides closer together" where AMFA has moved greatly and even offer different ways of getting to what the co. wants with out the harsh effect on the membership as in the way the co. wants to go about it. It is time for the mediators to get the co. to move, AMFA has already moved on each and every single ask of the co. If the co. continues to hold still and not move at all then it's time to file for "arbitration". Lets file for arbitration and let the co. explain to an arbitrator why they so desperately need all these "must have" concessions during these record upon record profits during, yes, the whole time while still under our current contract that just proves that under our current contract the co. is "EXTREMELY" profitable and the outlook is fantastic just like the last 4-5 years have been. Time to move on gentlemen. Take it to arbitration. Here's the article and please by all means pass this around the internet to keep it going;



    Bret Oestreich: Profits more important than safety at Southwest Airlines
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. swamt

    swamt Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    4,031
    FYI. ALK mechanics are starting to vote on their TA this month. Just wanted to point out how efficiently AMFA and ALK has came to a TA in 17 meeting sessions, compared to 50 with AMFA and SWA while in mediated talks and still no agreement after more than 4 1/2 years and SWA is still not negotiating in good faith and continue to stall by holding hard to their must haves with no movement what-so-ever even when AMFA has moved on almost all of the co's must haves. And let's not forget the law suit filed by AMFA with evidence of SWA not negotiating in good faith and stall tactics. Congrats to the ALK mechanics as well as the Virgin mechanics and good luck on your voting...

    AMFA - ASA NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE #17

    AMFA - SWA TECHNICIAN NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE #50
     
  4. swamt

    swamt Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    4,031
  5. Albert

    Albert Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,132
    Likes Received:
    313
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. swamt

    swamt Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    4,031
    You just did. And it more than applies to the situation at hand. Enough is enough. But you see this is exactly the co's plans. They really want the membership to "give in" "give up" and just take what ever they are offering. But most all (99%) of us already know what a yes vote would get us of their current offers. Not only that, there is no retro involved with their current offer as they did with the pilots. And the co. first stated that paying full retro was against certain tax laws. Yea right. Then why did we use to get it? Why are the pilots getting it? Why are the ALK mechanics getting it offered? And why has UPS also received full retro in past contracts? Stop with the lies SWA. Stop with the games. We will see in March if the new chief negotiator for the co. can or will do any better at good faith bargaining.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. jimntx

    jimntx Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2003
    Messages:
    9,572
    Likes Received:
    3,169
    Is the membership not willing to strike? Especially wildcat strikes that last a day or two, but put passengers on notice that the flight they are booked on may or may not get to depart due to "mechanical" issues. Can the union not get released from bargaining? At this point I don't see how any arbitrator could say that the company is bargaining in good faith.
     
  8. swamt

    swamt Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    4,031
    No comment on first part.
    We are currently in mediation, and I agree with you, I too cannot believe they (mediators) are not nagging the co. to bargain in good faith as well as speed this thing up. But, as I mentioned a while back, the mediators make money off of us staying in mediation so why bother if your a mediator. I say it's time to move onto arbitration.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    10,043
    Likes Received:
    4,577

    I've said it before. It could be that SWA management is waiting to see where AA settles in on their Maintenance group before they consider moving off on any demands they have against your group?

    Hopefully our groups come in soon and you do get that movement? Otherwise it's psycopathic that you've essentially been in limbo when you're talking about 4 1/2 years. That's some pure serious hardball that the two sides are playing.

    If they don't move then you know that they're just playing your group as a long term cost savings I'm sorry to say. At least Parker stepped up to the plate realizing that our negotiations were dragging and dropped the wages on us in the interim while the two sides continue to quibble.

    I think the longest negotiating session I read about in the last 30 years was Amtrak at 7 years. I hope Kelly isn't trying to set a new record?
     
  10. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    10,043
    Likes Received:
    4,577

    They can't. Not unless the membership basically completely disavows the Union and the Union would have to make an extremely bold statement that they are against any wildcat actions. Even that might not be enough in the eyes of a Judge if he then files an injunction against the group and declares damages against them for loss of revenue declared by the airline?

    I don't think AMFA as an organization honestly would have the resources to survive?

    APA tried it once remember and it nearly killed them if the company hadn't agreed to relief.

    TWU Local 100 in NYC did it once too and the TWU as an organization until the last election when the new leaders came in and started cutting out lots of people and had to trim fat also was getting close to Bankruptcy because of fines imposed by a Judge.

    I'm afraid that the only tool they really have is to work 100% by the book if they haven't been already? And I wouldn't be surprised either if they have a ton of Watchers (managers) keeping an eye on them that it doesn't look like they're engaging in any job actions.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  11. swamt

    swamt Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    4,031
    I thought United went 7 years too. I could be wrong, was it 6 plus?
     
  12. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    10,043
    Likes Received:
    4,577

    I'm not sure of their timeframe but changing out bargaining agents probably didn't help much?

    Plus Smisek was pure walking garbage. I don't think Kelly comes even close.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. swamt

    swamt Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    4,031
    New adds are out from AMFA. These are getting some big time viewings. Way to go AMFA keep up the pressure and DO NOT stop. It needs to be non-stop until we get a contract after waiting for going on 5 years...

    AMFA Times Square ad - February 2017
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
  14. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    10,043
    Likes Received:
    4,577

    Credit where credit is due. Very impressive.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. swamt

    swamt Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    4,031
    Apparently the co. not happy with new adds. They have now filed suit against our union for "job action". Not sure where they are getting this but some are saying the co. believes some members are boycotting overtime. I honestly think they are just reaching in response to the new adds that are out. Maybe a move to try and get the union to drop the suit against them, I don't know. The co. has put out memos indicating that they have made some big movement in the last couple meetings with the union at the negotiating table and will continue to have big movements with the mechanics at the negotiating table in the up coming meetings set for Feb and March. I hope this is true, but, as we all know, we've heard that promise before with no "0" results showing afterwards. But who knows, maybe they are ready to get serious at the table, I guess we will see...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. swamt

    swamt Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    4,031
    I guess it's official now. SWA just sued the union and apparently some individuals. Really not sure where all this is coming from. Company says that the overtime sign ups have reduced largely, however, with that said, every new year always has a reduction in overtime sign ups. You always get a massive very large sign up for O/T in the Nov and Dec months to help provide for the members families during the very expensive holiday months. The sign ups usually also continue in the Jan month for a couple of reasons, 1- everyone 0's out on hours for the new year. 2- some are still paying off holiday bills generated in the previous couple months. Now we get into Feb. and the O/T sign ups are always less and less as the bills got paid. Then once we start getting into March we get the nicer weather as well as spring breaks coming in and most are not signing up for O/T to enjoy the nicer weather and to go on spring break vacations and get a ways. So this time of year is a norm for a much reduced O/T sign up. It's not needed as much as the holidays have passed and more and more people want off for spring breaks the nicer weather coming in. It will even get more less when we start reaching the summer months, but early spring is usually the highest reduction of O/T sign ups so I just don't see the suggested boycott of O/T that the company is claiming. Besides all that, I never heard one word from anyone that there was some sort of boycott of O/T. I think the co. is just reaching for straws in response to the new adds that were released along with reduction of O/T sign ups because of the start of a new year and after holidays. Could this be a move from the co's new guy coming into negotiations? The one replacing Mr. Ryan? Very well could be, not a very good one if you ask me. Her's AMFA's update about it below...

    National Director’s Letter to Membership Regarding Complaint Filed by Southwest Airlines
     
  17. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    10,043
    Likes Received:
    4,577
    I've never understood how any company can get away with not signing for OT being a job action. Yes I know they can but it never made any sense to me.

    So what if I was in financial straights and it took me a few years to dig out of that hole and once I did (I smartened up) I don't "need" to work OT anymore?

    Maybe next these stupid companies start to go after us as individuals?

    I HATE reading these things. Good luck guys.
     
  18. swamt

    swamt Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    4,031
    Like I said, I think the co. is reaching. I still think it is in response to the new Times Square adds and the original suit AMFA filed against the co. for not negotiating in good faith. It is clearly spelled out in our contract what the co. needs to do when they cannot get enough folks to come in for O/T and they are not applying these steps as it is laid out in our contract. Instead they by passed all these steps and filed a suit calling it a boycott by the members. They have avenues they can use to get the desired number of folks to come in on O/T and they obviously didn't use them as they were suppose to. And now the co. is using the media to try and get their point across and this is after they said all these issues should be left at the negotiating table and here they are themselves trying to use the media to try and get their way in the courts. Completely unprofessional if you ask me. I have heard the co. is sending some maintenance out, which will be in violation of the contract again as they did not use the avenues provided by them and agreed to by them within our contract which will backfire on them in the long run.
    I agree with you about the co. trying to call it a job action as O/T is strictly voluntary. If I don't want to or need to work O/T then I will not it's that simple. They skipped all avenues they were suppose to use before calling mandatory overtime. That would be like the union skipping all avenues to be used and going straight to arbitration, it just doesn't work that way. We all (both sides) have contractual steps we all have to use first before jumping to last resorted steps within the contract. I too would like to get beyond all this crap, get a contract and move on. But the co. is just not wanting to do so and therefore it looks like another 5 years will go by before we see anything, sad very sad to see this co. go the way of all the other legacy carriers of the past, are we turning into just another airline? Man I hope not...



    Southwest Airlines accuses mechanics of overtime boycott in federal lawsuit
     
  19. WeAAsles

    WeAAsles Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    10,043
    Likes Received:
    4,577

    Look at me being the more optimistic one in regards to AMFA. Might shock the guys in the AA Maintenance threads?

    I still think they are waiting to see the final product for our guys before they offer you your deal? SWA still wants to make sure if they can to keep a lower cost overall advantage against their competitors and the only way to do that is to keep their eye on the ball.

    With the Association leaders stepping in soon I don't expect a deal to take much longer and that's when I think you'll see your deal shortly after?

    Old Guy claimed that he ran into your new leader and that your offer was now over $50 but he was going to hold out for more? Honestly if they don't touch or even strengthen your SCOPE and you could get at least half retro, I'd jump on the offer and not play any games trying to push it too far.

    But yea I am armchair quarterbacking here and it's your call? I just don't trust the current Political climate myself right now honestly.
     
  20. swamt

    swamt Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    6,012
    Likes Received:
    4,031

Share This Page