WN Mechanics seek mediation

[WNMECH]

Ok so I guess it's your contention then that the full dues paying membership should never be allowed to vote and let their collective voices be heard.

I'm not a fan overall of the IBT but yes they did let their members voices be heard and on that first vote the message was sent with a resounding 95% NO.

I guess you (And your leadership) don't have as much confidence in the total membership as you may try to pretend?

When should the members voices be heard BTW? Maybe in another 5 years?

I didn't say our membership should never be allowed to vote.
That's just stupid!

I said that if the IBT were still here, they would have endorsed this POS and told us "sorry guys, that's the best you will get".
We heard it from them before.

Its nice to have the guys at the table that will have to work under the contract being negotiated and not a big bloated union that only wants our money and couldn't care less about the actual terms of our contract.

And by the way, YOU wont work under our contract either so I really don't care about YOUR opinion of how we handle it.

 

[WeAAsles]

I didn't say our membership should never be allowed to vote.
That's just stupid!

I said that if the IBT were still here, they would have endorsed this POS and told us "sorry guys, that's the best you will get".
We heard it from them before.

Its nice to have the guys at the table that will have to work under the contract being negotiated and not a big bloated union that only wants our money and couldn't care less about the actual terms of our contract.

And by the way, YOU wont work under our contract either so I really don't care about YOUR opinion of how we handle it.

Oh you mean just like that guy SWAMT who likes to climb in the window of "other" people's houses and take a dump on their rugs.

Maybe if you can keep the dog on a leash I wouldn't be throwing his defecations back over to your side of the fence.

And you don't think after 5 years now that enough is enough and it's time to let the "Membership" send out the next message to Mr Kelly and Co.? Again when do the dues paying members get to be heard from?

 

[767 mechanic]

What a hypocrite. Did the membership get a vote at AA on the association. Some people think that years of outsourcing by the iam and the ibt should be undone overnight when the AMFA is in neg but when the industrial unions are neg it is ok for them to drag their heals (14 + years at aa). As far as head count goes the AMFA has added mechanics on a consistent basis to swa by bringing work back in house (opposite of aa). We have consistently educated you on why there is a difference in headcount at the airlines (fleet type and fleet size). You not being a mechanic don't understand or refuse to understand that things like flying widebody a/c verses narrowbody a/c takes more man power. Maybe if we put it in terms that you would understand like a widebody carries more bags than a narrowbody you might be able to comprehend a little better but I'm not sure. You continue to intentionally attempt to stir the pot by either not comprehending these facts or ignoring them. In the next few years the mechanic ranks at aa will be decreasing because of the new contract that we will have shoved up our backside and you will ignore this or you will spin it. As far as the ibt at ual and the contract that was voted down. The contract did not benefit the membership. It only benefited the ibt and their bottom line. This is typical of an industrial union that only cares about the unelected at the top but this is what you want in a union ( No accountability).

 

[WeAAsles]

What a hypocrite. Did the membership get a vote at AA on the association. Some people think that years of outsourcing by the iam and the ibt should be undone overnight when the AMFA is in neg but when the industrial unions are neg it is ok for them to drag their heals (14 + years at aa). As far as head count goes the AMFA has added mechanics on a consistent basis to swa by bringing work back in house (opposite of aa). We have consistently educated you on why there is a difference in headcount at the airlines (fleet type and fleet size). You not being a mechanic don't understand or refuse to understand that things like flying widebody a/c verses narrowbody a/c takes more man power. Maybe if we put it in terms that you would understand like a widebody carries more bags than a narrowbody you might be able to comprehend a little better but I'm not sure. You continue to intentionally attempt to stir the pot by either not comprehending these facts or ignoring them. In the next few years the mechanic ranks at aa will be decreasing because of the new contract that we will have shoved up our backside and you will ignore this or you will spin it. As far as the ibt at ual and the contract that was voted down. The contract did not benefit the membership. It only benefited the ibt and their bottom line. This is typical of an industrial union that only cares about the unelected at the top but this is what you want in a union ( No accountability).

Insipid pablum. And AMFA has added nothing that wasn't agreed to between both them and the Company they represent members at.

Otherwise there is ZERO explanation (or excuse) as to why they cannot reach a full contractual agreement with a Company that has made a profit every year since they first gained their license to fly aircraft under the name Southwest Airlines.

 

[WeAAsles]

If no "Industrial Unions" can have ANY excuses for why they have not been successful for Aircraft Mechanics in the US, then neither can/should "Class and Craft Unions" be allowed ANY excuses either.

Readers, ACCEPT NO EXCUSES!!!!!!

 

[WNMECH]

Someone keeps saying that its AMFs fault that this has gone on for 5 years.

5 years is too long , I agree.

Claiming it is the unions fault is not true at all.
The company took three other major workgroups to 5 years of without contracts during this same record profit stretch.
Ramp, Pilots and Flight attendants.
This is the new SWA style of contract negotiating.

Also we have new groups added to AMFA who have NEVER had a contract with SWA.
Maintenance controllers, maintenance trainers, facilities maintenance and field service techs.
These groups have had contracts, started from nothing, negotiated at the same time as mechanics during this past 5 years.
These sessions were not to address the mechanics contract language alone.

The facility guys have voted down their TA, and the others are near complete but will be as appendix's to the main Mechanic contract and should be voted on when the company decides it wants to negotiate instead of demanding "must haves" from the mechanics that wont ever pass.

AMFA has not wasted our time. They have made steady progress on these other groups in our contract. We are only now coming to stalemate territory.

The company wanted a 5 year pay freeze from ALL their major unionized groups and they got it from all of them.

 

[WeAAsles]

Someone keeps saying that its AMFs fault that this has gone on for 5 years.

5 years is too long , I agree.

Claiming it is the unions fault is not true at all.
The company took three other major workgroups to 5 years of without contracts during this same record profit stretch.
Ramp, Pilots and Flight attendants.
This is the new SWA style of contract negotiating.

Also we have new groups added to AMFA who have NEVER had a contract with SWA.
Maintenance controllers, maintenance trainers, facilities maintenance and field service techs.
These groups have had contracts, started from nothing, negotiated at the same time as mechanics during this past 5 years.
These sessions were not to address the mechanics contract language alone.

The facility guys have voted down their TA, and the others are near complete but will be as appendix's to the main Mechanic contract and should be voted on when the company decides it wants to negotiate instead of demanding "must haves" from the mechanics that wont ever pass.

AMFA has not wasted our time. They have made steady progress on these other groups in our contract. We are only now coming to stalemate territory.

The company wanted a 5 year pay freeze from ALL their major unionized groups and they got it from all of them.

Ok. So I know that over at SWA the Ramp and FA's are represented by the TWU. So if I/anyone is to accept that the 5 year standstill is not the fault of ANY Bargaining unit at SWA under the new management direction than your explanation can be applied to many and all other reasons at other Airlines represented by a myriad of different acronyms.

Correct? Otherwise excuses are unacceptable.

 

[swamt]

Why do you care?
All you industrial unionists can do is get a blow up rat and drag a coffin through the streets.
TWU/IAM/IBT have no power. They killed unionism, and it isn't coming back.
At least AMFA is looking out for the M&R.

Yet they still have the industry leading contracts.
DOH!...

xUT, you obviously have me confused with someone else so I will leave it at that.
I'm in AMFA Local 11, I was just supporting my fellow co-workers in the AMFA Local 32 in PHX. I have NOTHING to do with any of the industrial unions as you suggest, not sure where you got that.

 

[swamt]

Someone keeps saying that its AMFs fault that this has gone on for 5 years.

5 years is too long , I agree.

Claiming it is the unions fault is not true at all.
The company took three other major workgroups to 5 years of without contracts during this same record profit stretch.
Ramp, Pilots and Flight attendants.
This is the new SWA style of contract negotiating.

Also we have new groups added to AMFA who have NEVER had a contract with SWA.
Maintenance controllers, maintenance trainers, facilities maintenance and field service techs.
These groups have had contracts, started from nothing, negotiated at the same time as mechanics during this past 5 years.
These sessions were not to address the mechanics contract language alone.

The facility guys have voted down their TA, and the others are near complete but will be as appendix's to the main Mechanic contract and should be voted on when the company decides it wants to negotiate instead of demanding "must haves" from the mechanics that wont ever pass.

AMFA has not wasted our time. They have made steady progress on these other groups in our contract. We are only now coming to stalemate territory.

The company wanted a 5 year pay freeze from ALL their major unionized groups and they got it from all of them.

When the company responds by claiming they really want to get this done, while all along not moving an inch in their current offer that was passed to the union is pathetic. It just proves WHO are the ones responsible which is in fact the company. This moron that you guys keep responding to appears to be on ignore on my end so I never see his postings and maybe I mis posted my last response to xUT. If so I'm sorry for the confusion.
When SWA wants to get serious about getting to a TA then we will, until then we will just sit with our current contract for however long it may take. And I too would like to thank my NC for not just caving to the demands of the company like we have seen our previous industrial unions do here and at other airlines. It just keeps getting proved to the company that they do not need all these drastic concessions from us in order to maintain the company as we have been doing it under our current contract and making record upon record profits as well as returning all kinds of profits to the shareholders "UNDER OUR CURRENT CONTRACT AS IS".

 

[swamt]

Here's a little more on the pickets at PHX by AMFA Local 32...


Southwest Airlines mechanics picket in Phoenix

 

[xUT]

xUT, you obviously have me confused with someone else so I will leave it at that.
I'm in AMFA Local 11, I was just supporting my fellow co-workers in the AMFA Local 32 in PHX. I have NOTHING to do with any of the industrial unions as you suggest, not sure where you got that.

If you look, none of my posts are directed at you.
These were for Wheezy.
I know that, and thank you for your mutual support of the NWA AMFA strike.
Take Care,
xUT

 

[WeAAsles]

Here's a little more on the pickets at PHX by AMFA Local 32...


Southwest Airlines mechanics picket in Phoenix

That was a pretty sorry turnout to be quite honest. I'm seeing maybe a dozen to 15 people going around in a circle at the end of the terminal. Completely out of view and out of the way of any passengers?

I've absolutely seen much better protests out of AMFA than this pitiful one.

Notice the signs still say 4 years on them too? Can I donate some money to help get you guys some updated signs?

 

[swamt]

If you look, none of my posts are directed at you.
These were for Wheezy.
I know that, and thank you for your mutual support of the NWA AMFA strike.
Take Care,
xUT

I see. Then that was my bad. It's now apparent that he is still posting and I cannot see what he says due to me having him on ignore along with another problem child, makes for a much better read session.
No prob. for the support. They (NWA/AMFA mechanics) did more for our industry at that time then they get credit for, it was in fact for the industry not just NWA mechanics themselves.
My previous support was for our fellow co-workers at Local 32 for the informational picketing that took place this past Fri. in PHX. Hopefully this will continue to take place and a big one is planned for Dallas.

 

[swamt]

Here's a quick overview of the past 5 years at the yearly mark of approx mid year for years 13-17. Notice the # of the updates at each yearly update, only about 10 updates were given on average each year. Also notice how little movement has been made from year over year. Basically we are still back at the half way marker. I will only use the updates from the AMFA website as they are the most detailed and honest. All the companies updates were all propaganda to stir the membership against our NC and NONE of them ever worked. All of these updates can be found on the AMFAnational.org website...

Here's our latest update for the last negotiations:
AMFA - SWA Technician Negotiations Update #58

Here's one year ago in 2016:
AMFA - SWA Technician Negotiations Update #43

Here's 2 yrs ago 2015:
AMFA - SWA Technician Negotiations Update #32

Here's 3 yrs ago 2014
AMFA - SWA Technician Negotiations Update #20

Here's 4 yrs ago 2013
AMFA - SWA Technician Negotiations Update #10 (Text and Video)

And to be transparent, here's the very first update from 5 years ago 2012 with the statement from Tony Lowery (remember him guys?) saying we will have this done by spring of the next year (2013) and I believe he was brand new at that time...
AMFA-SWA Technician Negotiations Update #1

Were basically at the same time frame as the 2014 update with no movement from the company in economics for the last several years. Now who is stalling the negotiations Southwest? Yes it is your side not the unions. Stop the lying SWA, stop the propaganda, it not working with this group and it will not. When you (the company) is ready to get an agreement that is when it will happen. Until then we will just keep our current contract as is. Still near the top of the industry without giving up ANY scope language. So the ball is in your court Southwest, what you do with it is completely up to you. But let it be known that all the employees now know how the company will be treating them in the future.

 

[swamt]

Any opinions on this Mediation-Arbitration process, known as "Med-Arb" for short, that the company is wanting to use after next round of negotiations? Company seems to be pushing real hard all of a sudden to get a deal done. Matter fact they want it so quickly they are willing to use and fully accept what an arbitrator will decide. Odd they are all of a sudden throwing this out there. The VP of LR memo states that AMFA is potentially interested, but I haven't heard a peep from AMFA about it as of yet.
Me personally, I have never heard of the term Mediation-Arbitration or Med-Arb until now. Has anyone out heard of it? And if so could you give your opinions about using it or just passing on it and continue to meet as we have been? Something new to me and wondering if McCrady just pulled that out of the air.