WN Mechanics seek mediation

[I'll have another]

As I have posted before as well as others, the Med-Arb thing was NOT in AMFA's favor at this time and this IS why the company was pushing it so hard so quickly. I actually congrat AMFA for taking the time to discuss and weigh out the Med-Arb process as well as getting input from the experts instead of just jumping right into what the company was wanting to do, finally. We had way too many open items left to go the Med-Arb process (MO). Also as the NC has stated, the company has not moved an inch while AMFA has moved and offered relief on a lot that the company wanted thus far, it is time for the company to move and they brought it all on themselves to leave their movement within scope as AMFA has moved in most areas thus far. The last update comes as expected (mostly talking about the companies non-movements). No meeting options until Nov. then Bam, were into the holidays. By the time we resume again after that we will be well into the 5 1/2 years mark. At this rate we may not have anything by our 6th year. I am perfectly happy with the current contract we have as the company is trying to gut our current one.

I must say, AMFA put this med-arb stunt in the right context by saying, it's giving the company a "free swing". How about we present the company with TA #1, TA #2, and TA #3. Then the company negotiating committee can present these option to the grand poobah and ask him which one does he prefer. If he doesn't want any of them, then we can go back to normal mediation order. There is absolutely no risk to the company. AMFA would be taking all the risk..Sound familiar? The union has jurisdication of all maintenance not customarily outsourced(70 to 80%). We have the rest to include international no matter what the maintenance program is called. We need to not lose anymore. We only have 3.3 mechanics per aircraft. Far lower than any of our competitors. The next closest on is over 10 mechanics per aircraft any goes higher from there.

 

[B737 driver]

I must say, AMFA put this med-arb stunt in the right context by saying, it's giving the company a "free swing". How about we present the company with TA #1, TA #2, and TA #3. Then the company negotiating committee can present these option to the grand poobah and ask him which one does he prefer. If he doesn't want any of them, then we can go back to normal mediation order. There is absolutely no risk to the company. AMFA would be taking all the risk..Sound familiar? The union has jurisdication of all maintenance not customarily outsourced(70 to 80%). We have the rest to include international no matter what the maintenance program is called. We need to not lose anymore. We only have 3.3 mechanics per aircraft. Far lower than any of our competitors. The next closest on is over 10 mechanics per aircraft any goes higher from there.

You would have to see what the scope changes are, looks like the scope is close to T/A anyway, down to economics, in reality there is nothing to look at!

 

[swamt]

If you read the update from AMFA the company did not move an inch, so how do you get that scope is close to a T/A? Did I miss where the company moved so much on scope we are close to a T/A? There is a lot more than just down to economics.

 

[I'll have another]

If you read the update from AMFA the company did not move an inch, so how do you get that scope is close to a T/A? Did I miss where the company moved so much on scope we are close to a T/A? There is a lot more than just down to economics.

The company is not going to move on anything. The companies definition of negotiating in good faith is, My Way or the Highway. We have no leverage because the membership is very weak. The vast majority does not even bother to vote. Because of this, as another poster put it, "status quo is our friend". Screw negotiations, keep it on ice.

 

[I'll have another]

What we have here is another case of the Frank Lorenzo. If you are too young to understand, Wikipedia that name.

 

[Birdman]

The company is not going to move on anything. The companies definition of negotiating in good faith is, My Way or the Highway. We have no leverage because the membership is very weak. The vast majority does not even bother to vote. Because of this, as another poster put it, "status quo is our friend". Screw negotiations, keep it on ice.

I believe your correct on the company not moving but I've said before it's because they are waiting for the membership to say no, like the pilots and attendants. That will be our leverage, a NO vote. While I'm in no hurry I would be naive to think the company will move otherwise.

 

[B737 driver]

I believe your correct on the company not moving but I've said before it's because they are waiting for the membership to say no, like the pilots and attendants. That will be our leverage, a NO vote. While I'm in no hurry I would be naive to think the company will move otherwise.

Why don't you think the negotiating committee has not signed off, because they know it will pass, you keep saying a no vote, well AMFA will end up with turd sandwich, the company will say fine just sit there, just like Gary Kelly did with in the Airtran pilots, we have no leverage if we did the company would have moved a long time ago, plus there is the lawsuit, and the poor saps in Dallas got fired for nothing, hope they found another job! This has turned into a joke we are no different than American, and it wouldn't matter what union we had !

 

[I'll have another]

I believe your correct on the company not moving but I've said before it's because they are waiting for the membership to say no, like the pilots and attendants. That will be our leverage, a NO vote. While I'm in no hurry I would be naive to think the company will move otherwise.

Odds are eventually a hollowed out ta will be presented to the membership and amfa will say it's the best we could get. They'll frighten the young bucks into voting for it or else this and that will happen. But eventually they'll realize what they voted in and will want there pound of Flesh. A union challenge will come. AMFA must know this.

 

[B737 driver]

Odds are eventually a hollowed out ta will be presented to the membership and amfa will say it's the best we could get. They'll frighten the young bucks into voting for it or else this and that will happen. But eventually they'll realize what they voted in and will want there pound of Flesh. A union challenge will come. AMFA must know this.

What when everyone figures out we could have had this stuff 4 years ago, and we waited 6 years or more, who knows !

 

[I'll have another]

The majority of the members lost seniority on this AirTran deal. Now if the membership has to wear a dirty Sammy, AMFA will have a hard time surviving at SWA

 

[swamt]

Odds are eventually a hollowed out ta will be presented to the membership and amfa will say it's the best we could get. They'll frighten the young bucks into voting for it or else this and that will happen. But eventually they'll realize what they voted in and will want there pound of Flesh. A union challenge will come. AMFA must know this.

AMFA will not say, that's the best we could do. (that's what all the industrial unions say) Nice try drinker. And what the hell do you mean that AMFA will scare the hung bucks? Get a clue man. Aunio challenge will come? Do you really think that? Bring it on. Matter fact I want you to be in charge of it and start another card drive at SWA. C'mon man don't be scared, start one, and see what happens.

The majority of the members lost seniority on this AirTran deal. Now if the membership has to wear a dirty Sammy, AMFA will have a hard time surviving at SWA

The majority of the members DID NOT lose any seniority. Where the heck did you get that? Post proof of what you claim. Again you mention that AMFA will have a hard time surviving at SWA. Again pls explain with detail. This should be good.

 

[B737 driver]

AMFA will not say, that's the best we could do. (that's what all the industrial unions say) Nice try drinker. And what the hell do you mean that AMFA will scare the hung bucks? Get a clue man. Aunio challenge will come? Do you really think that? Bring it on. Matter fact I want you to be in charge of it and start another card drive at SWA. C'mon man don't be scared, start one, and see what happens.


The majority of the members DID NOT lose any seniority. Where the heck did you get that? Post proof of what you claim. Again you mention that AMFA will have a hard time surviving at SWA. Again pls explain with detail. This should be good.

Then come an agreement and put it out for a vote and see what the results are, you say it would be a waste of time, well let's see what the results have been so far, zero ! So I guess we get to next year , next August going into year 7 , a vote would still be a waste of time, how long do you think the rank and file will sit there and not revolt on your ass, maybe a card drive by year 7 would make AMFA suddenly present a T/A! And you can say I haven't heard that on the floor, you can expect that from maybe the low time guys needing a raise, or the ex Airtran guys, but when I hear SWA 10 to 15 year guys complaining and talking about wanting to replace this union you might want to pay attention! And I am not talking about the AMFA pom pom die hards!

 

[swamt]

Then come an agreement and put it out for a vote and see what the results are, you say it would be a waste of time, well let's see what the results have been so far, zero ! So I guess we get to next year , next August going into year 7 , a vote would still be a waste of time, how long do you think the rank and file will sit there and not revolt on your ass, maybe a card drive by year 7 would make AMFA suddenly present a T/A! And you can say I haven't heard that on the floor, you can expect that from maybe the low time guys needing a raise, or the ex Airtran guys, but when I hear SWA 10 to 15 year guys complaining and talking about wanting to replace this union you might want to pay attention! And I am not talking about the AMFA pom pom die hards!

Let's all wait for the outcome of these "road shows". Once the NC can get the real info out there instead of the "company propaganda". The reason I say this is because of some misinformation being tossed around and especially in some outstations as we are hearing. If the majority of the membership wants to consider voting after they get all the info from the road shows then let the NC know that that is the membership's wishes. But I will tell you this; if the membership votes in what the company is wanting in scope, there will be drastic changes down the road and it will not be good. From the info I got the company wants 50% and 60% of some future new maint. to be outsourced, that's way more than I would be willing to allow. We have always been in the range of 68-75% outsourcing ever since the teamsters started here. Now they are wanting to add these new maint checks to that list therefore growing the % outsourced to upwards of 80-90% (Don't hold me to those exact numbers, the road-show will have much better and accurate numbers to give to the membership) There is so much more to go thru, so I encourage all to attend these "road shows" to get the real info that is happening at the table of negotiations and how the company is "really" acting towards the mechanics not just what they are saying on the floors, on swalife, in memos, etc...

 

[Birdman]

But I will tell you this; if the membership votes in what the company is wanting in scope, there will be drastic changes down the road and it will not be good. From the info I got the company wants 50% and 60% of some future new maint. to be outsourced, that's way more than I would be willing to allow. We have always been in the range of 68-75% outsourcing ever since the teamsters started here. Now they are wanting to add these new maint checks to that list therefore growing the % outsourced to upwards of 80-90% (Don't hold me to those exact numbers, the road-show will have much better and accurate numbers to give to the membership) There is so much more to go thru, so I encourage all to attend these "road shows" to get the real info that is happening at the table of negotiations and how the company is "really" acting towards the mechanics not just what they are saying on the floors, on swalife, in memos, etc...

I'm just doing the math here but wouldn't adding a lower percentage of new maintenance to the old higher percentage rate lower the average? I know it's probably a question for the NC but the logic seems to be in our favor. As previously discussed on the negotiations side, the notion that the NC does not want us to vote because they know it would pass plays into the company's propaganda, and some mechanics, that would have us believe the evil NC won't let the poor membership approve their no brainer offer and they even offer their condolences for our predicament. The only merit to that argument would be if we voted next year on the same agreement we could have voted on this year, which is a real concern from some of my co-workers. I'm still in favor of voting down their agreement now to start the clock on an acceptable agreement. If the road show changes my opinion I will admit it.

 

[B737 driver]

I'm just doing the math here but wouldn't adding a lower percentage of new maintenance to the old higher percentage rate lower the average? I know it's probably a question for the NC but the logic seems to be in our favor. As previously discussed on the negotiations side, the notion that the NC does not want us to vote because they know it would pass plays into the company's propaganda, and some mechanics, that would have us believe the evil NC won't let the poor membership approve their no brainer offer and they even offer their condolences for our predicament. The only merit to that argument would be if we voted next year on the same agreement we could have voted on this year, which is a real concern from some of my co-workers. I'm still in favor of voting down their agreement now to start the clock on an acceptable agreement. If the road show changes my opinion I will admit it.

It's not the evil committee or the evil company, if you allow up to 78%, then figure the man hours, o/t worked, and downlines max will need as much maintenance, as the 300 fleet and make a deal based on the same percentage, if it takes 5 to 6 months so be it, but don't just sit there and never come to an agreement, or you will have a lot of people pissed !