Your opinion?

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Hmmm...I kind of see his point. One has to wonder about the impact to the economy should airlines cease flying. I think it might impact even those who haven't even been in an airport, much less boarded a commercial plane.

No doubt it would.

Having an impact on the economy does not classify it as a utility.

I will say what I have already said once before. Commercial air travel is readily available and affordable so NOBODY in the general public cares about the results of deregulation. I know some people don't want to hear that but it's the truth.

I know some people working in the airline business are upset because they feel like they are working for less to subsidize a passengers cheap ticket (and to an extent they are probably right) but the general public really doesn't care about that, they just want available flights and they want them cheap and for the most part, the airlines have delivered.

 

[Insp4]

No doubt it would.

Having an impact on the economy does not classify it as a utility.

I will say what I have already said once before. Commercial air travel is readily available and affordable so NOBODY in the general public cares about the results of deregulation. I know some people don't want to hear that but it's the truth.

I know some people working in the airline business are upset because they feel like they are working for less to subsidize a passengers cheap ticket (and to an extent they are probably right) but the general public really doesn't care about that, they just want available flights and they want them cheap and for the most part, the airlines have delivered.

Well obviously you don't work for an airline. This is what happened in 1966 when five major Airlines went on strike at the same time. Just think how something like this would effect the public today? Although as in 1966 Johnson ordered the workers back to work, I'm sure the Government would do the same today. And that was before Deregulation. And because of deregulation, we no longer have five major airlines today.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Well obviously you don't work for an airline.

I did, for over a decade.

This is what happened in 1966 when five major Airlines went on strike at the same time.

Interesting but, about 10 years before my time. As in before I was even born. The only time I have seen air traffic stop was during September 11th.

Just think how something like this would effect the public today?

I am sure it would impact the economy however, there is nothing an aircraft can do that can't be done by other means. Aircraft simply do it faster.

Although as in 1966 Johnson ordered the workers back to work, I'm sure the Government would do the same today

Obviously.

And because of deregulation, we no longer have five major airlines today.

Again, who cares? We are flying more people than ever. Flights are obtainable and cheap. Nobody cares because the need is being filled.

 

[Insp4]

I did, for over a decade.

Interesting but, about 10 years before my time. As in before I was even born. The only time I have seen air traffic stop was during September 11th.

I am sure it would impact the economy however, there is nothing an aircraft can do that can't be done by other means. Aircraft simply do it faster.

Obviously.

Again, who cares? We are flying more people than ever. Flights are obtainable and cheap. Nobody cares because the need is being filled.

"Over a decade?"...... My, my, my! I put in fourty. And yes, that was a little before my time also, but not by much. I hired on in 1968. In 1966 I was on an aircraft carrier off of north Vietnam. But flying today has little in commen to what it used to be. But than again, you wouldn't know that. If you don't mind cattle car arrangements that's just fine. If you don't mind that our work has been farmed out to foreign countries, again that's o.k. with you? Yea, flights are cheap. But you get what you pay for. ...... My, my, my, a whole decade you say? And when was that?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

"Over a decade?"...... My, my, my! I put in fourty.

I don't care if you put in 100. I think any SANE person would agree "over a decade" is a pretty significant amount of time. You debasing over a decade of service is nothing more than a result of the UNION propaganda you have endured over 40 years.

But flying today has little in commen to what it used to be.

So I hear.

If you don't mind cattle car arrangements that's just fine.

I am 6'2"". I assure you... I mind. However I have no control over airline seating. It's a question of comfort vs affordability. The public made the decision what they thought was important by their buying habits.

If you don't mind that our work has been farmed out to foreign countries, again that's o.k. with you?

That was always going to happen anyway. It was an inevitability. That is simply a result of globalization.

Yea, flights are cheap. But you get what you pay for. ......

Again, passengers decided the state of airline travel with their buying habits.

My, my, my, a whole decade you say? And when was that?

Would you like to know the difference between you and I?

I was unhappy working for American Airlines, did my research to find a marketable skill, went to school, and found an employer that treats me well and a career I enjoy.

You are unhappy and ....... make posts on a forum.

You complain. I act.

Yet, somehow you feel you are in a position to mock me.

 

[Insp4]

Oh I'm not mocking you. For your information I was unhappy working for American also. You did what you felt was right for you. Good for you. "Union propaganda"? Ha! My take on unions are that they are a necessary evil. Nothing more! I take it when you say you worked for American it was in management? And you weren't happy with it? If in fact that was the case, you did the right thing by getting out. I was happy doing what I did until I was assimilated into American. By that time I had too much time invested to just quit, so I retired first chance I got. But if you think the public had any say in deregulation, you are, like a lot of the younger generation, vary naive!

 

[KCFlyer]

And because of deregulation, we no longer have five major airlines today.

Yeah....we have 4 major airlines.

 

[Insp4]

Yeah....we have 4 major airlines.

That's right K.C., we have four!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Oh I'm not mocking you.

This

"Over a decade?"...... My, my, my!

My, my, my, a whole decade you say?

is something I would consider mocking. I would also consider it an attempt to debase the time I spent in the industry.

I take it when you say you worked for American it was in management? And you weren't happy with it? If in fact that was the case, you did the right thing by getting out.

First I would like to know why you took it I worked in management. Have I said something in the past to insinuate I worked in management? That is a serious question. I would actually like you to answer it.

To answer your question no. Not management. I worked at Triad in revenue accounting for a while auditing airline tickets, after that I worked as a Fleet Service Clerk at TULE. I actually hired in with the intention of going into electrical maintenance. Sept 11th changed my career goal from electrical maintenance to simple survival. After the company started expanding again I felt I had too many years in Fleet to consider a move.

I was happy doing what I did until I was assimilated into American. By that time I had too much time invested to just quit, so I retired first chance I got.

I was not always unhappy at American Airlines. I simply got fed up over the years with people's sense of entitlement (people attempting to dismiss and devalue my opinion based on my seniority date come to mind) and UNION propaganda.

But if you think the public had any say in deregulation, you are, like a lot of the younger generation, vary naive!

I never stated that. I simply stated the general public does not care because the supply is still there (even more so) and it is affordable.

In the end deregulation as far as the general public is concerned simply didn't matter. The market was able to self correct.

 

[Insp4]

Good mourning La lo. Oh, the management thing was just a guess. But if that offends you, I do apologize. But believe it or not, we do have something in common. I to briefly worked the ramp at LAX for United, right after I got out of the Navy. I worked there almost a year before I decided there was no future in it for me. I than quit and went to Northrop under the G.I.bill and got my A&P licences. Deregulation back then was pushed big time by all the major Airlines. It was a matter of dollars and cents for them and had nothing to do with benefiting the general public and has changed the Industry into nothing more than a glorified bus service today. In the end, deregulation as far as the general public is concerned, simply doesn't matter, is because they really don't know the difference. And yes, really don't care. But I feel that is changing to some degree today. I feel they have had enough of the nickel, and diming, which in itself is dew to increased competition resulting ultimately from deregulation. I wouldn't be surprised if they put credit card swips on lavatory doors next. As far as deregulation's effect on Airline worker, I feel it is one of the major contrbuting factors in surprising wages big time over the years. But then again, all of this is just one man's opinion, mine.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Good mourning La lo. Oh, the management thing was just a guess. But if that offends you, I do apologize.

It does not offend me I just thought it peculiar. I only asked because I don't want to represent myself as something I am not and was not. If I am giving people the impression I was in management I would like to take steps to correct that because it simply is not true.

But believe it or not, we do have something in common. I to briefly worked the ramp at LAX for United, right after I got out of the Navy. I worked there almost a year before I decided there was no future in it for me. I than quit and went to Northrop under the G.I.bill and got my A&P licences.

Then you are smarter than me because it took me 12 years and even at that only the writing on the wall motivated me to seek career alternatives.

Deregulation back then was pushed big time by all the major Airlines. It was a matter of dollars and cents for them and had nothing to do with benefiting the general public and has changed the Industry into nothing more than a glorified bus service today.

I would say that is an accurate assessment and an accurate analogy.

In the end, deregulation as far as the general public is concerned, simply doesn't matter, is because they really don't know the difference. And yes, really don't care.

It is my opinion that deregulation over time simply didn't matter because eventually the market corrected. For me to understand your point of view I would need you to state what you think would be different today had the airlines remained regulated.

But I feel that is changing to some degree today. I feel they have had enough of the nickel, and diming, which in itself is dew to increased competition resulting ultimately from deregulation. I wouldn't be surprised if they put credit card swips on lavatory doors next..

Perhaps you are right. However in my opinion passengers have tunnel vision that only allows them to see what they perceive as the cheapest price. In the end the passenger's buying habits are what really created the nickel and diming. The airlines started trying to create the illusion of being cheaper by use of hidden fees. Bait and switch at it's finest.

As far as deregulation's effect on Airline worker, I feel it is one of the major contrbuting factors in surprising wages big time over the years. But then again, all of this is just one man's opinion, mine.

I have heard many airline employed critics of deregulation state they felt their losses in pay in benefits were subsidizing airline tickets. To that I say the argument is weak at best when mechanics are pulling almost 100k a year with no overtime and a full benefits package.

 

[Insp4]

It does not offend me I just thought it peculiar. I only asked because I don't want to represent myself as something I am not and was not. If I am giving people the impression I was in management I would like to take steps to correct that because it simply is not true.Then you are smarter than me because it took me 12 years and even at that only the writing on the wall motivated me to seek career alternatives. I would say that is an accurate assessment and an accurate analogy.It is my opinion that deregulation over time simply didn't matter because eventually the market corrected. For me to understand your point of view I would need you to state what you think would be different today had the airlines remained regulated.Perhaps you are right. However in my opinion passengers have tunnel vision that only allows them to see what they perceive as the cheapest price. In the end the passenger's buying habits are what really created the nickel and diming. The airlines started trying to create the illusion of being cheaper by use of hidden fees. Bait and switch at it's finest.I have heard many airline employed critics of deregulation state they felt their losses in pay in benefits were subsidizing airline tickets. To that I say the argument is weak at best when mechanics are pulling almost 100k a year with no overtime and a full benefits package.

You asked how I felt if the industry was reregulated today? .......... First off I feel once the genny is out of the bottle, getting him back, would be almost impossible. I would like to see Trump push back on sending our jobs oversea's. If he will or not, is yet to be seen, but for once we have someone in the White House that at least, is giving mouth service to such a possibility. As for mechanic's compenation. Today they make a decent wage, but what I was referring to was all the years that they, we, gave them of low wages and givebacks, that let them not only survive but prosper.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You asked how I felt if the industry was reregulated today? .......... First off I feel once the genny is out of the bottle, getting him back, would be almost impossible. I would like to see Trump push back on sending our jobs oversea's. If he will or not, is yet to be seen, but for once we have someone in the White House that at least, is giving mouth service to such a possibility. As for mechanic's compenation. Today they make a decent wage, but what I was referring to was all the years that they, we, gave them of low wages and givebacks, that let them not only survive but prosper.

I assume you are referring to the post 9/11 con job AA/TWU pulled on their employees by threatening their pensions (which they tried to offload on the PBGC anyway). Is it your opinion that would have never happened in a world of regulated airlines?

 

[Insp4]

It does not offend me I just thought it peculiar. I only asked because I don't want to represent myself as something I am not and was not. If I am giving people the impression I was in management I would like to take steps to correct that because it simply is not true.Then you are smarter than me because it took me 12 years and even at that only the writing on the wall motivated me to seek career alternatives. I would say that is an accurate assessment and an accurate analogy.It is my opinion that deregulation over time simply didn't matter because eventually the market corrected. For me to understand your point of view I would need you to state what you think would be different today had the airlines remained regulated.Perhaps you are right. However in my opinion passengers have tunnel vision that only allows them to see what they perceive as the cheapest price. In the end the passenger's buying habits are what really created the nickel and diming. The airlines started trying to create the illusion of being cheaper by use of hidden fees. Bait and switch at it's finest.I have heard many airline employed critics of deregulation state they felt their losses in pay in benefits were subsidizing airline tickets. To that I say the argument is weak at best when mechanics are pulling almost 100k a year with no overtime and a full benefits package.

The argument of our loss of pay and benifits over the years may seem weak to you, but for those who had to live through it, believe me, that was far from the case!

 

[Insp4]

I assume you are referring to the post 9/11 con job AA/TWU pulled on their employees by threatening their pensions (which they tried to offload on the PBGC anyway). Is it your opinion that would have never happened in a world of regulated airlines?

Well, La Li, I go back further than that and have given up quit a bet to insure survival of the company I worked for only to end up with a PBGC check every month due in large part to deregulation, and piss poor management. And my answeer to your question, even though I consider myself a conservative, I feel there are curtain industries that need to be regulated due to the nature of them being critical to our well being, and the security, of our national economy......... And yes, I feel the Airline industry falls into that category.