Jump to content

Welcome to AirlineForums.com
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!


Photo

Flight Attendant Term Sheet


  • Please log in to reply
90 replies to this topic

#1
jimntx

jimntx

    Veteran

  • Registered Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8303 posts
I am a little surprised that there has been no discussion on here at all (except tangential to other topics) about the term sheet the company has presented to the APFA. We (the flight attendants) need to discuss every item on that term sheet to make sure how we feel about each item, how we intend to vote once we understand the terms and the final TA is presented, what we will each do given the situation that the company gets most/all the items on the term sheet==either through negotiation or the court.

Click here to view term sheet

Please, please, please, if you are not an American flight attendant, butt out. I don't care about your opinion of flight attendants or the bad service you got on your last flight. Also, what happened to you in your bankrupcty has little bearing on today's situation--particularly, if you are a US Airways mechanic. Not only is every bk different, but the laws have changed a good bit since the other airline bankruptcies; so, what happened to you, may or may not happen to us.

I just want to know how other AA flight attendants feel about the items on the term sheet.

Let's start with duration. The company wants 6 years from date of signing. I think that is 2 years too long, but would be willing to live with it if the union has the fortitude to insist on a "reverse me too" clause with management--i.e., no management raises or bonusses other than raises offered to the flight attendants or bonusses based solely upon company profits, during the duration of the CBA. And, that includes the period at the end of the 6 years where the company will be dragging its feet (and we all know it will) to prevent another TA from reaching completion.
  • 0
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not your sport.

#2
jimntx

jimntx

    Veteran

  • Registered Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 8303 posts
International Pay Rates: The company is proposing to eliminate base pay rate differences between Domestic and International Flight attendants (because they will be eliminating separate f/a corps), along with eliminating Incentive pay for over 70 hours.
My concern is item 2 quoted below:

2. Pay an override for International segments. An International flight is any
flight which operates outside the contiguous forty-‐eight (48) states,
Mexico, Canada and Alaska, which requires a flight attendant overwater
qualification
(e.g., raft ditching training). Override will be paid in the following manner based on classification seniority:
Years 15 $1.00
Years 610 $2.00
Years 1115 $3.00
No current flight attendant will be negatively impacted by the scaling of
the International override.


First off does the override for Years 11-15 (for instance) mean $3.00/hr or just that you will get an extra $3.00 for flying an International trip. And, is that $3.00 per flight hour? Does the override apply to pay and credit hours in the sequence? The term sheet doesn't say. Also, note that the override qualifier (o/w training) will mean that for all practical purpose, no Mexico flights other than from MIA will qualify for the override.
And, what the heck does that last sentence that I bolded mean? If you eliminate the International differential in base pay AND eliminate incentive pay, how do you not "negatively impact" the pay check of a current flight attendant in International? Does the company intend to meet you at the gate on your return from each your trips and give you an extra attaboy and pat on the back? That should make the hurt of $300-$500/mo missing from future paychecks go away, don't you think?
  • 0
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not your sport.

#3
jason77

jason77

    Member

  • Registered Member
  • PipPip
  • 59 posts
No more duty rigs is a big item. You could really get hurt if your trip falls apart.
  • 0

#4
BartlettAve

BartlettAve

    Member

  • Registered Member
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts

No more duty rigs is a big item. You could really get hurt if your trip falls apart.

Eliminating a premium pay rate on International kind of goes hand-in-hand with combining the DOM/INT bid sheet and pref bidding.

If all 16,000 FAs have the opportunity to fly an international trip now and then, theoretically, the quality of service could suffer.

Perrhaps the International FAs were being compensated for theri experience?
  • 0

#5
FWAAA

FWAAA

    Veteran

  • Registered Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9190 posts
I would hope that the negotiators have been provided with more than just the abbreviated term sheets.
  • 0

#6
rifbound

rifbound

    Member

  • Registered Member
  • PipPip
  • 91 posts

Please, please, please, if you are not an American flight attendant, butt out. I don't care about your opinion of flight attendants or the bad service you got on your last flight. Also, what happened to you in your bankrupcty has little bearing on today's situation--particularly, if you are a US Airways mechanic. Not only is every bk different, but the laws have changed a good bit since the other airline bankruptcies; so, what happened to you, may or may not happen to us.
I

I would just like to say that we are all in this together and for you to tell anyone to "butt out" is fairly rude of you. I've seen other post on this board with your opinions being offered in all different ways.(even on the maintenace threads) I have a neighbor that is a F/A for us and she's very worried about her job with AA. (Her husban is a pilot for us as well.) My neighbor and I talk about this mess we're in, so i understand your frustartion with the term sheet.

Yes, every BK is different and whether or not you believe it, the other ariline employees that have been through it might be able to offer advise or opinions that some might find useful. I'm pretty sure that your union is trying to clarify all the terms of what they want from y'all. At least your union is trying to be proactive and making their point known. (unlike our's is) Please think about it and try to repect those that offer their opinions, if they post something here and I'm sure they will.
  • -1
If it flys in AAmerica, fix it in AAmerica by AAmericans!

#7
bluebird

bluebird

    Advanced

  • Registered Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 209 posts

"...[E]very BK is different and whether or not you believe it, the other ariline employees that have been through it might be able to offer advise or opinions that some might find useful..."

Good point. ;) We don't know exactly what to expect. :blink:
  • 0
In case of rapture, I'll be on eternity leave (1 Thess 4:17).

#8
WorldTraveler

WorldTraveler

    Veteran

  • Registered Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13548 posts
I am glad that others decided that "this is only OUR discussion" is not valid on a forum in which all kinds of people regularly post on other forums and on which the diversity of ideas is a strength of this forum.
.
It seems pretty obvious that AA wants to eliminate some of the "sacred cows" of the industry and is using the BK process to break all kinds of barriers which have built up over decades...
gaining flexibility to mix int'l and domestic trips is just part of the process AA is using to gain the maximum amount of flexibility - since one of the clear themes of all of the term sheets is that AA wants to make sure that no other competitor labor group can have a productivity or scope advantage relative to AA.
.
While it is possible that AA could start moving FAs in and out of int'l so quickly that service does suffer, I would imagine that the FA groups will still largely divide based on seniority.
.
What I didn't see addressed (or I missed) was any change to AA's foreign language speaker program and the staffing that goes along with it. Did I miss it? Comments?
.
Also interesting that AA put a 16 hour limit on FA duty but none exists for the pilots, deferring only to FAA regs. Interesting or not?
.
And of course the interesting question is whether there is any talk about a mass exodus of FAs as has been reported might happen in maintenance. Is it possible that part of these changes to int'l flying might take away the luster for some of the most senior FAs?
  • 0
Celebrating the best in commercial aviation.

#9
Juniority

Juniority

    Advanced

  • Registered Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 154 posts

We (the flight attendants) need to discuss every item on that term sheet to make sure how we feel about each item, how we intend to vote once we understand the terms and the final TA is presented, what we will each do given the situation that the company gets most/all the items on the term sheet==either through negotiation or the court.

Please, please, please, if you are not an American flight attendant, butt out. I just want to know how other AA flight attendants feel about the items on the term sheet.


Well jimntx, you gave it a valiant effort and I highly respect you for trying, but the Buttinski's have already hijacked your thread by the sixth comment. We certainly are dealing with an "overage" of flight attendants!
  • 1
Christianity: because you're so awful you made god kill himself.

#10
eolesen

eolesen

    Veteran

  • Registered Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11833 posts
My apologies to Jim for entering the thread, but this needs to be addressed...

I would just like to say that we are all in this together and for you to tell anyone to "butt out" is fairly rude of you.


Sorry, but no. It's not rude at all to ask that a discussion be limited to flight attendants. Especially when it comes from someone with a relatively senior post count... Frankly, I've got an empty QuikTrip cup on my desk that's been part of the forum longer than you have been...

I don't tell my brother how to run the family business, and we know each other well enough not to try and tell each other how to raise or discipline each other's kids.

Unfortunately, that same common sense etiquette doesn't show up here very often. It's crap like this that makes me want to volunteer to be moderAAtor again...

Absent a "butt out" instruction, any given thread is guaranteed to migrate towards the workgroup-which-shall-not-be named who dominates this particular forum. We also seem to have a bunch of "not remotely qualified to be an in-law yet" types who think they know what is best for the family business....

There's more than enough threads active where the in-laws can gloat, or the "unnamed workgroup" can piss & moan about decades of injustices.

So.... do try to respect what I thought was a reasonable request from a long-time member, which again was to limit discussion for the people who have to live under the revised working conditions.
  • 1
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

#11
WorldTraveler

WorldTraveler

    Veteran

  • Registered Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13548 posts
"honey is that your phone ringing?"


"it's only call return"
  • 0
Celebrating the best in commercial aviation.

#12
Duke787

Duke787

    Veteran

  • Registered Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 924 posts

Eliminating a premium pay rate on International kind of goes hand-in-hand with combining the DOM/INT bid sheet and pref bidding.

If all 16,000 FAs have the opportunity to fly an international trip now and then, theoretically, the quality of service could suffer.

Perrhaps the International FAs were being compensated for theri experience?


decided to respect F/A only request.
  • 1




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users