12th Hour Has Set In, 1000's Short!

[Checking it Out]

As the card drive starts to wind down I want to express my concerns about the division that has been created! Whether it be the Line or Base we all are Brothers and Sisters. The AMFA organizers eat, sleep and dream AMFA! That is all they talk about!

It’s hard to have a decent conversation about anything else. The incidences at MCI and AFW are a prime example of the Brain washing that has been done! These aren’t going to be the same ones running the show. These are the same individuals who you work next to! Most aren’t interested in participating or they would be involved in the past and present. Most are one item concerns! If you take them aside they really don’t have a clue on how to Arbitrate or represent a member in a 29d case! And they really don’t want to learn. I can’t remember how many times over the last 6 years they have asked many of the current officers to run if AMFA was to get in!

Many of the organizers now have come to the realization that the drive is in its 12th hour and is thousands of cards short! The depression has set in and now you are hearing on a regular bases that we will get you next time! Does their have to be a next time? Why not just start participating in the process? Most know I have been writing on these forms for many years because I believe in the TWU! That is no secret! I have seen many changes and will see more to come! We the membership control the Union! I see this on a regular basis! We have the control to make our voice be heard by having open discussions at the Union Hall and on the floor! Motions are made to change on a regular basis some are excellent and others are rejected That is part of Democracy!

I ask that the TWU Brothers and Sisters welcome back the miss-guided members and ask them to participate in a rational manor for improving what they perceive as a lack of representation!

We are the only Union that has successfully worked to retain full overhaul capabilities! It is not going to be easy in the future! Outside influences are going to put a great strain on all of us! With every ones support we will overcome. I ask that you take off your shirts put on a regular one and start directing your efforts into improving the quality of life at AA and the TWU! It’s a shame that the hate and discontent you see on these individuals! A fellow Brother pointed out to me recently that the AMFA Organizers all have the same look! I started looking around and you know he was right! Why? Maybe because they eat, sleep and dream of something that can’t be achieved! Even Delle admitted this during several meetings conducted at USAir and others that in today’s environment this is not achievable!

 

[NyQuill]

You mean the guys that are amfa organizers could be our "elected" officials?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

As the card drive starts to wind down I want to express my concerns about the division that has been created! Whether it be the Line or Base we all are Brothers and Sisters. The AMFA organizers eat, sleep and dream AMFA! That is all they talk about!

It’s hard to have a decent conversation about anything else. The incidences at MCI and AFW are a prime example of the Brain washing that has been done! These aren’t going to be the same ones running the show. These are the same individuals who you work next to! Most aren’t interested in participating or they would be involved in the past and present. Most are one item concerns! If you take them aside they really don’t have a clue on how to Arbitrate or represent a member in a 29d case! And they really don’t want to learn. I can’t remember how many times over the last 6 years they have asked many of the current officers to run if AMFA was to get in!

Many of the organizers now have come to the realization that the drive is in its 12th hour and is thousands of cards short! The depression has set in and now you are hearing on a regular bases that we will get you next time! Does their have to be a next time? Why not just start participating in the process? Most know I have been writing on these forms for many years because I believe in the TWU! That is no secret! I have seen many changes and will see more to come! We the membership control the Union! I see this on a regular basis! We have the control to make our voice be heard by having open discussions at the Union Hall and on the floor! Motions are made to change on a regular basis some are excellent and others are rejected That is part of Democracy!

I ask that the TWU Brothers and Sisters welcome back the miss-guided members and ask them to participate in a rational manor for improving what they perceive as a lack of representation!

We are the only Union that has successfully worked to retain full overhaul capabilities! It is not going to be easy in the future! Outside influences are going to put a great strain on all of us! With every ones support we will overcome. I ask that you take off your shirts put on a regular one and start directing your efforts into improving the quality of life at AA and the TWU! It’s a shame that the hate and discontent you see on these individuals! A fellow Brother pointed out to me recently that the AMFA Organizers all have the same look! I started looking around and you know he was right! Why? Maybe because they eat, sleep and dream of something that can’t be achieved! Even Delle admitted this during several meetings conducted at USAir and others that in today’s environment this is not achievable!

cio, please post why the twu has allowed the srp/osm program. Post why there are different pay scales for AMTs at AA. Post why the twu has allowed jobs done by AMTs to be done by the ramp. Post why the twu international did not attend a debate they were invited to. Post why teamtwu paraded a coffin on a trailer while chanting, "Scab! Scab! Scab!" outside the Brady on the 17th of January. Best of all, post your real name if you are able to.

 

[NyQuill]

CIO post who's liable to pay back Delle the $100,000's of dollars incurred in this drive.

 

[j7915]

As the card drive starts to wind down I want to express my concerns about the division that has been created! Whether it be the Line or Base we all are Brothers and Sisters. The AMFA organizers eat, sleep and dream AMFA! That is all they talk about!

It?s hard to have a decent conversation about anything else. The incidences at MCI and AFW are a prime example of the Brain washing that has been done! These aren?t going to be the same ones running the show. These are the same individuals who you work next to! Most aren?t interested in participating or they would be involved in the past and present. Most are one item concerns! If you take them aside they really don?t have a clue on how to Arbitrate or represent a member in a 29d case! And they really don?t want to learn. I can?t remember how many times over the last 6 years they have asked many of the current officers to run if AMFA was to get in!

Many of the organizers now have come to the realization that the drive is in its 12th hour and is thousands of cards short! The depression has set in and now you are hearing on a regular bases that we will get you next time! Does their have to be a next time? Why not just start participating in the process? Most know I have been writing on these forms for many years because I believe in the TWU! That is no secret! I have seen many changes and will see more to come! We the membership control the Union! I see this on a regular basis! We have the control to make our voice be heard by having open discussions at the Union Hall and on the floor! Motions are made to change on a regular basis some are excellent and others are rejected That is part of Democracy!

I ask that the TWU Brothers and Sisters welcome back the miss-guided members and ask them to participate in a rational manor for improving what they perceive as a lack of representation!

We are the only Union that has successfully worked to retain full overhaul capabilities! It is not going to be easy in the future! Outside influences are going to put a great strain on all of us! With every ones support we will overcome. I ask that you take off your shirts put on a regular one and start directing your efforts into improving the quality of life at AA and the TWU! It?s a shame that the hate and discontent you see on these individuals! A fellow Brother pointed out to me recently that the AMFA Organizers all have the same look! I started looking around and you know he was right! Why? Maybe because they eat, sleep and dream of something that can?t be achieved! Even Delle admitted this during several meetings conducted at USAir and others that in today?s environment this is not achievable!

cio, please post why the twu has allowed the srp/osm program. Post why there are different pay scales for AMTs at AA. Post why the twu has allowed jobs done by AMTs to be done by the ramp. Post why the twu international did not attend a debate they were invited to. Post why teamtwu paraded a coffin on a trailer while chanting, "Scab! Scab! Scab!" outside the Brady on the 17th of January. Best of all, post your real name if you are able to.

Ken, are then any SRP/OSMs on the line? Why don't you post wether you prefer having the backshop work done in house or farmed out.

As for the progressive payscale, how about there is a learning curve?

Are you really so proud, or is it insecure that you want the lesser skilled jobs for yourself rather than the ramp? That frees you up for your highly skilled task requirements. Don't bother replying about jobs lost, how many amts have been let go over the years because of ramp pushing back or de-icing?

Those jockers, fools, whatever with the coffin are still going to be in the union and working at AA, regardless of who represents the amts. Their little stunt was no worse than the, air-polluting, burning of the contracts you guys did on the beach.

 

[Bob Owens]

As the card drive starts to wind down I want to express my concerns about the division that has been created! Whether it be the Line or Base we all are Brothers and Sisters. The AMFA organizers eat, sleep and dream AMFA! That is all they talk about!

It’s hard to have a decent conversation about anything else. The incidences at MCI and AFW are a prime example of the Brain washing that has been done! These aren’t going to be the same ones running the show. These are the same individuals who you work next to! Most aren’t interested in participating or they would be involved in the past and present. Most are one item concerns! If you take them aside they really don’t have a clue on how to Arbitrate or represent a member in a 29d case! And they really don’t want to learn. I can’t remember how many times over the last 6 years they have asked many of the current officers to run if AMFA was to get in!

Many of the organizers now have come to the realization that the drive is in its 12th hour and is thousands of cards short! The depression has set in and now you are hearing on a regular bases that we will get you next time! Does their have to be a next time? Why not just start participating in the process? Most know I have been writing on these forms for many years because I believe in the TWU! That is no secret! I have seen many changes and will see more to come! We the membership control the Union! I see this on a regular basis! We have the control to make our voice be heard by having open discussions at the Union Hall and on the floor! Motions are made to change on a regular basis some are excellent and others are rejected That is part of Democracy!

I ask that the TWU Brothers and Sisters welcome back the miss-guided members and ask them to participate in a rational manor for improving what they perceive as a lack of representation!

We are the only Union that has successfully worked to retain full overhaul capabilities! It is not going to be easy in the future! Outside influences are going to put a great strain on all of us! With every ones support we will overcome. I ask that you take off your shirts put on a regular one and start directing your efforts into improving the quality of life at AA and the TWU! It’s a shame that the hate and discontent you see on these individuals! A fellow Brother pointed out to me recently that the AMFA Organizers all have the same look! I started looking around and you know he was right! Why? Maybe because they eat, sleep and dream of something that can’t be achieved! Even Delle admitted this during several meetings conducted at USAir and others that in today’s environment this is not achievable!

CIO;

Isnt it true that many of the AMFA organizers are people who participated in the TWU? Some were stewards, others were even officers, in fact some still are officers. They all know that change is needed, and it is not the members that must be changed first. The International must be changed and we know that its not going to happen. Even if it did, would it result in us being able to join together with all the other mechanics in the industry?

Look at all the things that have happened. What has the TWU done for us? What has the AFL-CIO done for us? No other industry has ever did to their unionized workforce what the airlines did to airline workers.

Why would our unions let this happen? Instead of leading, telling us this is BS and we must stick together with all the other unions and demand that we will not bear the financial burden of things that were beyond our control they laid back and said "take it because otherwise you might lose your jobs".

We can get an idea of why the TWU did this. It could lie in the $1.7 million that the company pays to union officials. Its one of the very few things outlined in the "Vermont Plan" that the union did not give back. Its probably the best $1.7 million the company ever spent. A $1.7million dollar payoff to 27 union officials for $660 million in concessions.Sounds like a good deal on the companys part dont you think? Not a good deal for the Union members.

The fact is we dont have a union. As long as our Presidents and other officials are getting paid by the company they are suspect, because they in fact are working for the company.If they had fought the company on concessions, instead of just losing what we lost, they could have lost their whole AA paycheck, and would have had to struggle by on the paltry six figures that they get from the union.


The fact is, beyond the Local level, the members have no control. Read the TWU Constitution, read the transcripts of the hearing in NY where the union states that they do not have to present modified agreements to the membership, only entirely new agreements. Guess what, under the RLA we dont get new agreements, we can only modify the existing agreement which is perpetual unless voided by the NMB.

The fact is that this "union" has done a lousy job. They blame everyone else for their failures. They even blame the members. There is no accountability and no remedy other than voting them out and going to a new union. All one needs to do is look at their track record for the last twenty years to see that. Just look at the graph of AA mechanics pay vs CPI.

 

[Buck]

Are you really so proud, or is it insecure that you want the lesser skilled jobs for yourself rather than the ramp?

And who decided those job classifications were lesser skilled?

 

[Bob Owens]

Ken, are then any SRP/OSMs on the line?

I'll respond to that. No there are no SRP/OSMs on the line. Instead the TWU simply transferred work out of our title group and gave it to fleet. By doing this they accomplished two objectives. They gave the company lower costs and they lessened the electoral power of line Title 1, transferring power to the overhaul where costs of living was 50% less. However with the reintroduction of FAR66 we could see a simliar situation here on the line where A&Ps are replaced by company issued, non-transferrable cetificate holders.

Why don't you post wether you prefer having the backshop work done in house or farmed out.



I believe that Ken and I are in agreement that we want all the work done in house by mechanics at mechanics rate. We are against the creation of a subclass of permanently lower paid mechanics.

As for the progressive payscale, how about there is a learning curve?


If a mechanic has not demonstrated his ability within six months the company may terminate him. A mechanic will learn as long as he is working. Most mechanics come here with experience, the progressive payscale is merely a means of saving the company money, it has nothing to do with productivity. As I said earlier, if the mechanic does not demonstate his ability to produce within his first six months the company can get rid of him.

Are you really so proud, or is it insecure that you want the lesser skilled jobs for yourself rather than the ramp?

A question like that could only come from a non-union or company-union minded person. Any real union would seek to provide opportunity for as many members as possible. Instead of stripping work away from the top earners they fight to keep that work there so more members in the lower paid classifications have the opportunity to move up.

Don't bother replying about jobs lost, how many amts have been let go over the years because of ramp pushing back or de-icing?

So in other words screw the newborn? The fact is that the company has more than tripled in size while they have less A&P mechanics per airplane. A lower percentage of stations have A&P mechanics there. Stations like Buffalo and Cleveland saw all their A&P mechanics laid off. So yes mechanics were laid off, they either had to transfer or downgrade, either way, mechanics jobs were permenantly eliminated. Mechanics are confined to a limited number of locations to work at. At one time pretty much wherever they had fleet they had A&Ps. However the TWU has been willing to not have maintenance in many locations and put in language that does not really protect A&Ps as far as station staffing.In fact the language illustrates the way the TWU thinks, they dont care who they put in, as long as they are TWU. They do not provide equal protection to all classifications, letting the company freely choose who they want where. However they dont seem to care much about enforcing that language as illustrated in Charlotte.

By allowing the company to choose one class of workers for station staffing and exclude others entirely the TWU is violating their own principles of industrial unionsism. The exclusionn of the opportunity for employment where one classification gets the work and another does not is not that much different in priciple than the attempt by CR Smith to offer to give the mechanics a raise but not any of the other TWU members.

 

[TWU informer]

The depression has set in and now you are hearing on a regular bases that we will get you next time! Does their have to be a next time? Why not just start participating in the process? Most know I have been writing on these forms for many years because I believe in the TWU! That is no secret! I have seen many changes and will see more to come! We the membership control the Union! I see this on a regular basis! We have the control to make our voice be heard by having open discussions at the Union Hall and on the floor! Motions are made to change on a regular basis some are excellent and others are rejected That is part of Democracy!

What Part of WITHOUT FURTHER RATIFICATION Don't You Understand?

How can you honestly claim the members are "in control" when you know for a fact that a Federal Judge ruled in favor of the TWU International's claim that they can modify or amend your Labor Agreement without ratification per the TWU Constitution?

How can you honestly claim the members are "in control" when there is no re-call or direct election of International Officers/Positions?

How can you honestly claim the members are "in control" when Local Officers took the position that "they" could bulid a new union per the By-Laws regardless of three membership votes against such activity?

The Local Hall is not the problem, we replaced Ed Wilson for Marion Finley, we replaced Marion with Dennis "I resign" Burchette, and now we have "I love you guys" McDonald, and the problem of give-backs and concessions continue. The problem is with the Constitution and it is proving to be far easier to get a new Constitution than it is to change the TWU version.

CIO, there are somethings that you say and claim that even the simple minded member can prove are lies. Why do you disregard the credibility of your character and spew this non-sense? Is it because you hide behind an alias and therefore cannot be held accountable?

Would you sign your name to these statements and distribute them across the Tulsa Maintenance Base?

The only "depression" that is setting is that you and others are liars and base your beliefs on that which can be proven false. This is "depressing" because our future and the profession is in the balance of this upcoming election and you are regular resident of la-la land without any factual understanding of the truth. It is depressing that you are unable to see the simple things and you will soon return to the floor to work on jets.

 

[TWU informer]

Ken, are then any SRP/OSMs on the line?

I'll respond to that. No there are no SRP/OSMs on the line. Instead the TWU simply transferred work out of our title group and gave it to fleet. However with the reintroduction of FAR66 we could see a simliar situation here on the line where A&Ps are replaced by company issued, non-transferrable cetificate holders.

Bob,

Do not forget, there were jobs that used to be done in shops at the line stations that were transfered to overhaul and given to the SRP/OSM classification.

Wheel and Brake, Emergency Slides, Coffee Maker, just to name a few.

 

[Bob Owens]

Ken, are then any SRP/OSMs on the line?

I'll respond to that. No there are no SRP/OSMs on the line. Instead the TWU simply transferred work out of our title group and gave it to fleet. However with the reintroduction of FAR66 we could see a simliar situation here on the line where A&Ps are replaced by company issued, non-transferrable cetificate holders.

Bob,

Do not forget, there were jobs that used to be done in shops at the line stations that were transfered to overhaul and given to the SRP/OSM classification.

Wheel and Brake, Emergency Slides, Coffee Maker, just to name a few.

And lets not forget the Container Shop in 1995.

We lost over twenty mechanics when they outsourced that work.

The TWU has allowed the company to outsource our work at will. Our language does not stop outsourcing, instead the union relys on lowering pay and benifits in order to make it economically feasible to keep the work in house.

What company would not love a union that will lower pay and benifits so they could do work in house cheaper than outsourcing?

Such a union is better for the company than no union. The union takes the members money, makes all the excuses for the company, takes all the heat for the company and the workers focus all their fustration on the union. In the meantime the company gets to take away all our money and gets off scot free! In a non-union company, if the company did what they did to us there would be no one else for the workers to blame other than the company. At this point I would guess that Delta is sorry they did not help the TWU get in there. However Delta is trying to deflect the blame, they are claiming that since the unions at AA gave such massive concessions that they would need them also, in order to compete.

Having a union like the TWU is extremely cost effective for an airline. Just slip the union $1.7 million and get $660 million in concessions! Where else could the company get a deal lke this? Its even better than the original AIRBUS deal!

 

[TWU informer]

We are the only Union that has successfully worked to retain full overhaul capabilities! It is not going to be easy in the future! Outside influences are going to put a great strain on all of us! With every ones support we will overcome. I ask that you take off your shirts put on a regular one and start directing your efforts into improving the quality of life at AA and the TWU! It’s a shame that the hate and discontent you see on these individuals! A fellow Brother pointed out to me recently that the AMFA Organizers all have the same look! I started looking around and you know he was right! Why? Maybe because they eat, sleep and dream of something that can’t be achieved! Even Delle admitted this during several meetings conducted at USAir and others that in today’s environment this is not achievable!

Oh please tell us the definition of a "regular shirt"?

The reason we are in this mess is you and the other weak members rely on politicians, t-shirts, and slogans. This is not about what shirt we wear, this about those that have had enough and are ready to fight, taking up a battle against those that feel "just lucky to have a job brother", and have not reached the bottom of their tolerance for concessions.

Specifically what do you perceive we are trying to "achieve" that you claim cannot be done? I didn't quite understand that position statement. What is it that you think I eat, sleep, and dream about?

You are right about one thing, all AMFA organizers have a look of determination, and a look that lacks fear. But once again, this is not about a "look", this is about replacing the TWU. When are you going to start looking at and studying the facts instead of claiming to be psychologist without proper training?

As far as "outside" influences" putting out presssure. AMFA represents more mechanics and more carriers than TWU, and the TWU industry leading pay/benefit concessions are the only outside pressure AMFA is feeling and hearing about from Airline Management. Every carrier in the domestic system is banging the concession drum wanting that which that TWU has already given, under the arguement of "COMPETITION". How does it feel to be working for the largest carrier and to own the industry pay/benefit model that all other airline management seeks to obtain? If I am not mistaken, you appear to be quite proud of your industry position, which begs the question, "Who's Side are You ON"?

 

[Bob Owens]

Defeatists like CIO are usually those who are content because as far as they are concerned "They got theirs". He probably has his position at the Local and makes enough money to get by, so he does not care about anyone else.

People like CIO are a plauge to the Labor Movement. When the founders of the TWU set out to form the TWU many felt the same way. They likely said the same things that CIO and those like him say-especially those who got their little deals who ran the unions that were in place before the TWU.

Why is the goal of having all the aircraft mechanics united under one union unrealistic?

What is anti-union about it?

What is immoral about it?

Most outside observers, union and non-union alike assume that mechanics have their own union.

CIO has no motivation to change. He often says "get involved". But what does he mean? Is he willing to tolerate dissenting veiws? Tolerance seems to be a problem down there in Tulsa, on both sides. When CIO says "get involved" I cant help assume that he is basically saying "dont complain, come here and get a piece of the action for yourself, all you have to do is fall in line".

I did "get involved". And I never forgot that I worked for the members and would not suppress the will of my members for the will of the International. For that Chuck Schalk and I were removed.

So far our fellow mechanics at Alaska, NWA, SWA, UAL and a few other smaller carriers have joined AMFA. They are waiting for the rest of us. Because the only way we can change the direction of our careers from consistant concessions back to a remunerative career is if we do what unionists say we should do-act as one. Mechanics must act as one as much as possible. We cannot do this with unions like the TWU that take work away from us and are only concerned with expanding their membership, even at the expense of losing work for us along with wages and benifits for all their members. We cannot act as one within a union that makes us compete with our fellow union members for work. We cannot act as one with a union that does whatever the company wants it to do. We cannot act as one within the TWU.

As mechanics we need to get into a union that will promote our interests as mechanics. We need a union that will seek station staffing for mechanics. We need a union that will not sell us out to create lower paid classifications simply to increase membership. We need a union that will fight for protecting our jobs and not sit back and do nothing for ten years until a rival union appears. We need a union that is focused on mechanics, not card dealers in Vegas, School Bus driver in Georgia, NASA workers in Florida or trying to get government funding for AMTRACK.

We need a union that wants to bring our wages up to where they should be ($40/hr)and not drag them down closer to that of their average member($15/hr).

If we stay with the TWU we will continue to head towards that $15/hr member.

If we go to AMFA we can work together with our fellow mechanics to raise the average from $30 to $40.

 

[Checking it Out]

Since amfa has taken over at NWA the average reduction is 100 members per month!

Since amfa has applied their influences at United the average reduction is 250 members per month!

 

[Bob Owens]

Since amfa has taken over at NWA the average reduction is 100 members per month!

Since amfa has applied their influences at United the average reduction is 250 members per month!

Over the last twenty years a mechanic on average earns approximately 50 cents per hour less, per year, than the year before with the TWU and its Industry Leading Concessions.

Stay with the TWU and do the TWU Limbo dance- HOW LOW CAN YOU GO!

Twenty years and counting and we are still going lower!

We even go lower than Non-union!


There is no doubt that this is a bad time for mechanics, however the GAO recently reported that despite todays downturn they expect employment to grow by 17% for A&P mechanics by the year 2010. In addtion over 30% of todays A&P will be within retirement age by 2010. Too bad that we will not be able to capitalize on this increased demand thanks to the TWU and their 6 year concessionary contracts. In the period from 1994-2001 the industry saw such an increased demand for mechanics, as predicted but there too the TWU ensured the supply of cheap mechanics labor to AA with its infamous 1995 contract.

The TWU has once again made sure that mechanics would be left out of the economic recovery that lies ahead. Once again they locked us into a long term concessionary contract just like in 1995. They could not even keep the 2001 contract in effect for its relativly short duration.

The TWU has got to go-WE CAN NOT GO ANY LOWER!

Stop doing the limbo dance and stand up straight-GET AMFA!