I just looked at Jetz profile:
767jetz
Joined on Aug 20 2002 06:19 AM
Registered Member · 3285 posts
Jetz was around well before our shotgun wedding in 2005. He makes observations from a United pilot's point of view in response to NYC and he's a furloughed West pilot, Mike Stein?
August 2013 Pilot Discussion
Posted by 767jetz on 05 September 2013 - 09:57 AM in US Airways
'nycbusdriver', on 05 Sept 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:
But the fact is, longevity WAS given weight. Something that was conspicuously absent in the Nicolau abortion.
"OK, that's a true statement. But consider the facts.
The two mergers were quite different. Not just the fact that one was in bankruptcy, but also that the merger policy was different, AND (not to be minimized) the east never considered or suggested anything but a hard line, all-or-nothing approach. So in the end Nicolau gave you nothing. (With regard to DOH/LOS. He did give you over 500 positions on top and 2 to 1 upgrades, right?)
Katz has a bad track record, and for the life of me I can't figure out why people keep hiring him. He swings for the fences and strikes out every time. Look, the UA proposal pissed off a lot of UA pilots because they felt (wrongly so) that arbitration was another form of negotiation, and we should have been swinging for the fence also. The truth is, that does nothing but piss the arbitrators off. So our proposal, while not fantastic for us, was well reasoned, measured, creative, and strictly followed policy. We gave the arbitrators something that was 100% defensible for them. It gave some things away, but protected us from the blood bath that the CAL proposal would have been, stapling half of us to the bottom. In such a high stakes game, it was a defensive play that worked.
In fact here's a little insight into how things went down. We were told early on that we should focus mostly on tangible qualifiers like category, status, and LOS. We were told not to rely heavily on career expectations, since it is subjective and much harder to defend or predict the future. That's the one area we conceded a bit, because our expectations were much greater. There are furloughed UA pilots that, absent a merger, and strictly based on age 65 retirements would have ended their careers as widebody captains. With only 17 B777's and a handful of B767's, there simply were not enough seats to accommodate all the CAL pilots absent a merger. A vast majority were destined to retire as NB captains. Now we have to share those seats and they have access they never would have had otherwise. It's a big concession. But the trade off, again, was getting some of our furloughed pilots SOME of their longevity. Plus the fact that our method was adopted. So we controlled and minimized the loss rather than go all in and suffer a catastrophic loss. Freund played chess at a chess match, while Katz came in with a marked deck of cards and tried to play poker.
The final result was very close to relative seniority. I gained about 1.5%. Others lost around 3%. Instead of retiring between 100-200, I will now retire at over 450. I lose almost 8 years of LOS compared to the CAL guys I'm grouped with. We now have to share our desirable bases with CAL. in less than 5 years all fences go away and CAL can start flying our 747's. Oh well. In the end we will deal with the new reality, move on, and focus as one group on the next contract openers in about 18 months.
You guys decided to start a civil war and end your careers on bankruptcy wages and work rules chasing the "gold standard" DOH that never will see the light of day. Seems ridiculous to most that you would give up so much in earnings and quality of life over what amounts to a stripe on your shoulder, ego, and misguided principle. We now have former UA f/o's who may never see a captain seat or a widebody before they retire. But they will still out earn you guys in their career. But hey, it's your money, your career, your choice. And it is certainly a CHOICE. You are not victims of anyone but yourselves. Unfortunately you are dragging down my friends on the west with you. Not to mention dragging the industry down and destroying pattern bargaining. Thankfully now, UA and DL, along with American hopefully, will repair that damage."
05 September 2013 - 04:25 PM
'767jetz', on 05 Sept 2013 - 1:37 PM, said:
I draw the conclusion, when it's a United or AA pilot who disagrees with the Usapian line, the canned response from the playbook is "it's gotta be a West pilot"
Right?
