2015 Fleet Service Discussion

[BLUTO]

Bless Yer Heart again.
 
Nope, I never stated that, so why are you lying again?
 
Everyone doing the same job at a PMUS/PMAA should get the same pay rates working under the same contract.
 
So ever going to answer the questions or will you keep up the lies, misinformation and misrepresenting who you really are and what is your real agenda?

HIZ REAL AGEND
IZ MEAT PUPPET!

 

[700UW]

 

[MetalMover]

 
It's a copy cat industry. Corporations today are stuck in a cycle of boom and bust for the sake or share price and stockholder returns. During the boom they hire and expand and if they don't get the returns they expect, they start to cut and downsize. It used to be that these cycles were trigger by profits or losses, now they're triggered by "expected returns" and "market valuations."
 
UA and the other airlines were unprofitable, they went into BK shed debt and costs, they merged to cut capacity and over saturation. Now UA is portrayed as sick entity while making a $1B profit last quarter. Bloomberg puts it like this, "The airline has been trying since late 2013 to cut $2 billion from its annual costs through fuel savings, workforce reductions and other measures. The Chicago-based carrier reported $37 billion in operating expenses for 2013, giving it one of the lowest profit margins among peers." 
 
So, it is no longer enough be to profitable but now you have to maintain a certain artificial level of profit margin set from outside forces and that means cuts need to be made because it is not about profits anymore, it about how much profits the Market believes you should have.
 
Read some of the reports on companies that report profits but their stock price goes down since they didn't meet expectations. It is ridiculous.

Yes.....True and will also apply to AA down the road months and years after the merger. I think we will also see similar cost cutting..or cost savings, however one wants to view it, down the road. 

 

[ograc]

Since the IAM/UA Agreement was ratified the first round of station closings was 15. It is my understanding this next round will involve 28. That makes a total of 43 outline stations outsourced since the agreement passed. The consensual bloodletting is not over. When the contract becomes amendable the medium sized stations no longer have scope protection. Where do you think UA, and their thirst for outsourcing, is going 3 years from now? The loss of represented jobs is just beginning at UA. Shame on the UA NC for agreeing to such terms. Shame on the IAM Leadership for endorsing such an agreement. Shame on the membership for ratifying an agreement with such inadequate scope language. We are witnessing the carnage of mistakes made. Many will lose their careers as a result. Going forward... what has the membership, the District Leadership and the Grand Lodge learned from such a dreadful miscalculation? Anything? Or are the rest of us destined to repeat history?
When do we wake up and smell the roses?       

 

[robbedagain]

orgac I agree with you bro    The time to wake up and smell the rose is now  otherwise  itll be far worse    We cannot allow it to happen.   That UA contract serves as a lesson (or it really should) that in no way shape or form shall we ever have a POS deal like that at our company 

 

[737823]

HIZ REAL AGEND
IZ MEAT PUPPET!

Dave what does that even mean?

Josh

 

[psa8979]

What troubles me is there are Union Members who want to have a the APATHETIC, UN-EDUCATED, MIS-INFORMED,DELUSIONAL, and VINDICTIVE Airline Worker vote for a ASSOCIATION/UNION/CBA. Based on MIS-INFORMATION, DECITE , LIES, and GREED. Lets ALL hope for a LOGICAL decision soon by NMB ? The ASSOCIATION is the BBD for ALL ! Otherwise what is happening at UAL will be our fate at AAL . BLOODBATH !

 

[xUT]

Dave what does that even mean?

Josh

 

meat puppet
A person that is totaly devoid of brain material; a complete idiot
That´s the third time now that Brian fails to the final exam; this guy is a real meat puppet!
by Zorglub May 19, 2005
 

Hopr thid helpd... 😛

 

[T5towbar]

Since the IAM/UA Agreement was ratified the first round of station closings was 15. It is my understanding this next round will involve 28. That makes a total of 43 outline stations outsourced since the agreement passed. The consensual bloodletting is not over. When the contract becomes amendable the medium sized stations no longer have scope protection. Where do you think UA, and their thirst for outsourcing, is going 3 years from now? The loss of represented jobs is just beginning at UA. Shame on the UA NC for agreeing to such terms. Shame on the IAM Leadership for endorsing such an agreement. Shame on the membership for ratifying an agreement with such inadequate scope language. We are witnessing the carnage of mistakes made. Many will lose their careers as a result. Going forward... what has the membership, the District Leadership and the Grand Lodge learned from such a dreadful miscalculation? Anything? Or are the rest of us destined to repeat history?
When do we wake up and smell the roses?       

Don't forget the first 6 stations. That was the second round. The first round was all of our Cargo centers that was on the sCO side. That makes it 49 total. [SIZE=14.3999996185303px]And 6 Canadian stations gone as well.[/SIZE]
There will be 23 Larger Tier 2 stations and 7 hubs, for a grand total of 30.   That's all that will be left. 
 
Bottom line is they want us gone and run a virtual airline. As long as the stock keeps going up, damn the passenger or the employee. It's about the shareholders and Wall Street.

 

[robbedagain]

T5  where does BWI fit in for UA   I know they have a large operation  just curious as to where they stand  and are they one of the stations that will eventually be outsourced?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim  while I feel bad for the folks that are getting affected by this whole crap UA is doing,  I don't like it one bit  But this is how I look at it.   UA brought this deal to the IAM   The UA IAM leadership obviously failed by not telling mgmt. no to that deal   That's the first mistake   The second one is by agreeing to put it out to vote    to which they did   and I believe they recommended a yes vote but someone can correct me there.   The next thing was  while the money was/is there  that was basically all the yea voters looked at   I don't think they had any realizations the ramsifications as to what the reality of the situation would be   therefore the folks really played into mgmts. hands there.    It is sad  and this is what theyre reaping now.   IAM UA leadership in all reality should have never ever agreed to this type of deal  and its my hope that they will realize this and the mistakes and do far better in the next round.     IAM leadership at UAL also should have gone for better scope and everything.       In the future I believe our leaders will not go down this path   and I sure hope that the folks at UA learn a helluva lesson with this.   It really sucks for all those who are affected.

 
Robbed, there were many, in fact the majority imo, that read the contract. They didn't just vote on the pay.  But when they questioned the contract language, the District leaders lied and deceived them.  I put out legit flyers with truthful explanations but the District posted an update on the website that said I wasn't in negotiations so I really don't know the language. That made sense to a lot of folks, especially when the leaders said they were in negotiations and even though the language says one thing, the intent was another.  Regarding the outsourcing, the District leaders guaranteed 96% protections and 'on record' through mailers even questioned why the company would even be able to outsource 1 station.  Here take a look at one of the mailers to the members homes from the district leaders;

"96% of the entire IAM-represented Membership (those with 4/1/2006 seniority or earlier) cannot be laid-off because of outsourcing. That greatly reduces United's ability to outsource CSR work. Why outsource if you have to have jobs f or 960/o of the workforce?"
 
They also lied about full time jobs. When I pressed the liars about why they lifted the part time cap, they pointed to a bull crap "Full time commitment" letter.  The letter itself had in bold, "Full time commitment" but the text of the letter was empty other than allowing the company to downgrade for any ole flimsy reason except to create back to back part time.  Thus, after the sellout was signed, ORD whacked a couple hundred full timers just because.
 
So, when your union leaders, who claimed "They were there in negotiations" and "This is what the contract means" sells you out and looks you in the eye telling you that THIS is how the contract is interpreted, it sounds convincing. I don't blame the membership, I blame the leadership.
 
And the contempt for the membership doesn't stop there.  They ask members to go out and vote for them, but then violate their bylaws.  How many times do we have to look like idiots and tell members to go and vote, but the votes won't count because the union can't have a fair election and follow its bylaws?  There are over 7,000 union elections a year and only about 12 that are overturned, since most unions follow their bylaws.  Since 2008, the current leadership has failed each and every time they have supervised a district election.  Now it looks like a rerun election in June, to do the last election over again.   I'm not even sure why we need all of these AGC's.  I think there are 27 but if you look at the assignments, there will be about the same amount of eboard members as there are United stations, and some of the eboard members at United have had every single one of their station assignments wiped out by potential closings.  Never mind that the eboard agreed to give themselves pay raises this past November.  Starting last week, their salaries went from $101,000 to $114,000.   Losing membership, contracting out, and give themselves a pay raise?   Really?

 

[T5towbar]

T5  where does BWI fit in for UA   I know they have a large operation  just curious as to where they stand  and are they one of the stations that will eventually be outsourced?

BWI is a protected Tier 2 station.
When negotiations happen, we have to fight for the 23 line stations. They have mainline flights.
All of the protected Tier 2 have a lot of mainline.

 

[Black Magic]

Yep the UA fleet will blame the negotiating team and the negotiating team will blame the membership for voting the contract in. See how its done folks?! It's all just a ruse nowadays!! It's done that way on purpose to escape blame. How the neg team put out that contract to vote on is downright criminal. Meanwhile the dues keep rolling in...

 

[737823]

BWI is a protected Tier 2 station.
When negotiations happen, we have to fight for the 23 line stations. They have mainline flights.
All of the protected Tier 2 have a lot of mainline.

T5, they have Cinderella dates so they are subject to contracting out on the amendable date.

Josh

 

[T5towbar]

 
Robbed, there were many, in fact the majority imo, that read the contract. They didn't just vote on the pay.  But when they questioned the contract language, the District leaders lied and deceived them.  I put out legit flyers with truthful explanations but the District posted an update on the website that said I wasn't in negotiations so I really don't know the language. That made sense to a lot of folks, especially when the leaders said they were in negotiations and even though the language says one thing, the intent was another.  Regarding the outsourcing, the District leaders guaranteed 96% protections and 'on record' through mailers even questioned why the company would even be able to outsource 1 station.  Here take a look at one of the mailers to the members homes from the district leaders;

"96% of the entire IAM-represented Membership (those with 4/1/2006 seniority or earlier) cannot be laid-off because of outsourcing. That greatly reduces United's ability to outsource CSR work. Why outsource if you have to have jobs f or 960/o of the workforce?"
 
They also lied about full time jobs. When I pressed the liars about why they lifted the part time cap, they pointed to a bull crap "Full time commitment" letter.  The letter itself had in bold, "Full time commitment" but the text of the letter was empty other than allowing the company to downgrade for any ole flimsy reason except to create back to back part time.  Thus, after the sellout was signed, ORD whacked a couple hundred full timers just because.
 
So, when your union leaders, who claimed "They were there in negotiations" and "This is what the contract means" sells you out and looks you in the eye telling you that THIS is how the contract is interpreted, it sounds convincing. I don't blame the membership, I blame the leadership.
 
And the contempt for the membership doesn't stop there.  They ask members to go out and vote for them, but then violate their bylaws.  How many times do we have to look like idiots and tell members to go and vote, but the votes won't count because the union can't have a fair election and follow its bylaws?  There are over 7,000 union elections a year and only about 12 that are overturned, since most unions follow their bylaws.  Since 2008, the current leadership has failed each and every time they have supervised a district election.  Now it looks like a rerun election in June, to do the last election over again.   I'm not even sure why we need all of these AGC's.  I think there are 27 but if you look at the assignments, there will be about the same amount of eboard members as there are United stations, and some of the eboard members at United have had every single one of their station assignments wiped out by potential closings.  Never mind that the eboard agreed to give themselves pay raises this past November.  Starting last week, their salaries went from $101,000 to $114,000.   Losing membership, contracting out, and give themselves a pay raise?   Really?

I've explained ad-naseum the reasoning on why this was passed. 
When I found out about the side letter giving up our Cargo, I was very skeptical. I know that you US members have your differences with Nelson, but he and others explained the lies about this contract. And members in my hub knew. Any good union does not throw or sacrifice ANY dues paying member who is on property. Why the "job protection dates"?  Bartz and Delaney lied when they came to EWR about LOA #5. I was there.
 
This all happened because the District saw dollar signs (unrepresented sCO ATW agents) and was out bluffed in a bad poker hand. Wall & Bonds had the District beat as soon as the District filed for single carrier without getting something for the sUA people. Your deal proves that point. (Everybody will say that if we didn't deal, there would be mass firings, since none of us on the sCO side would not be protected. I for one knew that this was a major bluff. It would be suicidal to just destroy THREE - I mean - TWO major hubs with thousands of people.) That would be politically untenable. Even if it was just the point of pay parity, that would have helped in my opinion. So the District went all in and their hand was beat. So they had to sell this turd, and they knew that people needed money, the 1-800-RETRO hotline was created and timed just right. They had to throw us sCO people a bone just to get it done. (that's where LOA #5 came in for the junior members)  But the minority of us knew it was wrong.  
 
Tim, and others called this every step of the way........