737 MAX seat pitch

[jack f]

I just read in USA Today that AA is going to reduce seat pitch on the 737 MAX aircraft to 30 inches in coach and 3 rows will go to 29 in.
You guys should change your name "Spirit Too" and you wonder why passengers are always angry!!

 

[robbedagain]

its last 3 or so rows and its on the new max planes UA is contemplating doing the same thing too
personally ive seen far more happy and positive pax on us than angry ones but yes ive seen some of them too

 

[bigjets]

I just read in USA Today that AA is going to reduce seat pitch on the 737 MAX aircraft to 30 inches in coach and 3 rows will go to 29 in.
You guys should change your name "Spirit Too" and you wonder why passengers are always angry!!

AA took out 2 rows of seats and gave EVERYONE extra legroom, and raised ticket prices by $5 I think.

The passengers went to SWA etc etc......so the passengers have decided that price is the most important thing. Just like movies, we compete with SWA and Spirit who don't have movies but we do but we also get the added expense along with the similar prices on competing flights

AA is giving the passengers what they want cheap airfare.

 

[cltrat]

I just read in USA Today that AA is going to reduce seat pitch on the 737 MAX aircraft to 30 inches in coach and 3 rows will go to 29 in.
You guys should change your name "Spirit Too" and you wonder why passengers are always angry!!

you're probably one of those guys who think because you bought a ticket you own the airplane

 

[jimntx]

Unfortunately, bigjets is right on. First and foremost, passengers want the lowest price, and will put up with almost any discomfort to get it. Mind you they won't do it silently or quietly, but they will do it. I can't tell you how many people I know who have sworn they will never fly Spirit again. Some of them swear that every single time they come home from a trip on Spirit.

Just goes to show you once again that Herb Kelleher had it right. He made it clear that he was selling you transportation from Point A to Point B, and if it wasn't too bumpy you got a glass of Coke and a bag of peanuts. The rest of us insisted on selling the experience of air travel. Now when they fly on us they still want that experience of air travel, but they want it at a Spirit/Southwest/etc price.

 

[FWAAA]

AA took out 2 rows of seats and gave EVERYONE extra legroom, and raised ticket prices by $5 I think.

The passengers went to SWA etc etc......so the passengers have decided that price is the most important thing. Just like movies, we compete with SWA and Spirit who don't have movies but we do but we also get the added expense along with the similar prices on competing flights

AA is giving the passengers what they want cheap airfare.

MRTC debuted in early 2000; AA raised fares a lot more than $5 that year, and had one of AA's best years ever. Revenue passenger miles were up 4% on flat capacity (due to seats being removed). Yield (average fare per mile of travel) was up 7%. Unit revenue (PRASM) was up 11.5%. Total revenue in 2000 was up $2 billion over 1999, an increase of 11.3%. Pre-tax income was $1.3 billion. Wages were up 10.8% that year, and fuel prices were up 42%.

More Room Throughout Coach didn't harm AA at all in 2000. Fares were way up due to the internet boom (lots and lots of venture capitalist money being spent on travel on American). The often-repeated mistake is thinking that AA was charging more than UA, DL, NW, CO or US in 2000. All of those airlines raised fares substantially that year, and AA did very well. MRTC was not a failure. Arpey was a failure.

AA's problems after the year 2000 had nothing to do with MRTC and everything to do with the horrific events of September 11, 2001. Big loss in 2001, gigantic loss in 2002 and another big loss in 2003. In Arpey's desperation to pick up nickels in the street, he abandoned what had worked for AA before the travel industry collapse. AA had problems recovering due to the growth of much lower-cost Southwest and the growth of Soros-backed non-union jetBlue, both of which offered much lower fares than AA.

I'm not arguing that MRTC should be repeated, but UA has proven the value of additional legroom seats for elites and for those who want to pay more to escape the tight seat pitch regular economy. Many mainline LUS (now AA) planes still do not feature Main Cabin Extra, so if you're not exit row eligible and don't have approval to buy First Class, you're often stuck in crappy LUS tight pitch seating. And now, Discount Doug is about to make things even worse.

 

[UPNAWAY]

That is exactly what we are doing offering more choices. More MCE seats on these aircraft too.

 

[CactUSmx]

The company pays our salaries by selling seats not legroom. This is a business not a movie theatre. People want to fly from A to B for the cheapest price. Don't get me wrong, the passenger wants the TV screen and the extra legroom, they just don't want to pay for it. We lose passengers just by raising the ticket price of a ticket by $5. Its a whole new fight out there with Spriit and Southwest stealing our customers. On a positive note, more seats to non-rev on. Employees have been complaining the flights are too full and not enough seats to non-rev on, maybe this will relieve a little pressure.

 

[jimntx]

The company pays our salaries by selling seats not legroom. This is a business not a movie theatre. People want to fly from A to B for the cheapest price. Don't get me wrong, the passenger wants the TV screen and the extra legroom, they just don't want to pay for it. We lose passengers just by raising the ticket price of a ticket by $5. Its a whole new fight out there with Spriit and Southwest stealing our customers. On a positive note, more seats to non-rev on. Employees have been complaining the flights are too full and not enough seats to non-rev on, maybe this will relieve a little pressure.

I wouldn't bet the rent money on that supposition (see bolded statement above). First off, having more seats for non-revs blows your financial assertion that the company is selling seats not leg room out of the water. There's even less profit in transporting non-revs than there is in comfortable revenue passengers.

Second, since they are seriously overbooking a lot of flights, those "I won't pay the extra $5" vacancies are being filled by other revenue passengers, not non-revs. I just worked a flight last week that was oversold by 15 passengers (almost 10% of the a/c's capacity), and none of them had rolled over from an earlier flight. Even flight attendants and pilots commuting to work only have jumpseats available to them.

I wonder if the company is just making the Basic Economy passengers into standbys for regular Economy no-shows and misconnects. Since they're not allowed to carry on bags that would have to go in the OH bins, they can be boarded in just a few minutes.

Maybe WN's decision to stop all overbooking will force us to do same from a public relations standpoint, but I wouldn't bet on it. Since management seems to be ignoring the opinions and attitudes of the frequent flyers, I fail to see why they would care about John Q. Public's opinion of the airline.

 

[jack f]

you're probably one of those guys who think because you bought a ticket you own the airplane

WOW, what do I say to that? You are a screaming example of why your industry treats it customers like ****!!! I don't think I own the airline but i do think that if I'm being jammed into a tin can for $700 or whatever I paid, I expect a reasonable amount of legroom. That's why I don't fly Spirt or Frontier.

 

[jack f]

Unfortunately, bigjets is right on. First and foremost, passengers want the lowest price, and will put up with almost any discomfort to get it. Mind you they won't do it silently or quietly, but they will do it. I can't tell you how many people I know who have sworn they will never fly Spirit again. Some of them have sworn that 2 or 3 times already.

Just goes to show you once again that Herb Kelleher had it right. He made it clear that he was selling you transportation from Point A to Point B, and if it wasn't too bumpy you got a glass of Coke and a bag of peanuts. The rest of us insisted on selling the experience of air travel. Now when they fly on us they still want that experience of air travel, but they want it at a Spirit/Southwest/etc price.

I'm pretty sure that SW pitch ranges from 31 -33 inches and oh by the way their wifi is $8. AA charges something like $30 for a cross country flight.

 

[jimntx]

Well, considering that if you were doing a cross country flight on WN, there would more than likely be at least 3 separate legs. At $8/leg, that's $24. Not that much cheaper. And, there would be no meal of any kind. On a cross country flight that can be brutal. Don't get me wrong. I'm a great admirer of WN, but we are not talking about the same sort of airline or business philosophy. As I said, WN' makes it very clear that they are selling you transportation from Point A to Point B. That's all. My point is not that WN is any less, it's that passenger want all the amenities that AA used to provide, but they want them for free.

For instance, on my last trip, during boarding a couple (mid-50s) came on and while the wife was standing in the aisle in First Class she complained that the airplane was cold. She was dressed in shorts and a halter top. She asked for (I'm trying hard not to say demanded) a blanket. As they were coach passengers, blankets are not available. This is not a new restriction of amenities. We haven't had blankets in coach since shortly after 9/11. The husband pointed out that all of the F/C seats had blankets, and I responded that yes the F/C seats have blankets. He didn't say anything further, but you should have seen the look he gave me. He was highly offended that coach passengers did not get blankets. Oh well, that's one of the reasons why it's called First Class and why people pay a lot of money to sit there.

I'm not trying to justify the reduction in pitch between the rows or the addition of seats on an airplane that is already jampacked full of seats, but you know the company didn't ask for my input on that decision. You as a passenger also have a decision to make. Will you accept the lessening of your personal space, or will you quit flying American Airlines? Nobody at AA is forcing you, and one of the nice things about a free-market democracy is that we have choices.

 

[IORFA]

I'm pretty sure that SW pitch ranges from 31 -33 inches and oh by the way their wifi is $8. AA charges something like $30 for a cross country flight.

Point of clarification, AA doesn't charge you $30, Gogo charges you $30. Complain to them about over charging you. Also, only you are stopping yourself from purchasing a first class seat or MCE. So if you are "jammin yourself in a tin can" that is your fault.

 

[john john]

I just read in USA Today that AA is going to reduce seat pitch on the 737 MAX aircraft to 30 inches in coach and 3 rows will go to 29 in.
You guys should change your name "Spirit Too" and you wonder why passengers are always angry!!

The 1978 airline deregulation act allows airlines to control price, routes and service

 

[cltrat]

WOW, what do I say to that? You are a screaming example of why your industry treats it customers like ****!!! I don't think I own the airline but i do think that if I'm being jammed into a tin can for $700 or whatever I paid, I expect a reasonable amount of legroom. That's why I don't fly Spirt or Frontier.

no you came into a forum for employees bitching about something non of us have anything to do with hell I,m 6 4 I,d like more room too.I;d suggest you go to the many frequent flyer forums and complain maybe some company bean counter will see it.
While I can't speak for jim I bet he sees many passengers that amazes him how they found the airport