9 year FA on What We Need

Skymess

Veteran
Aug 6, 2004
1,123
6
NY
Good Points Made:


THIS IS SOMETHING FOR F/A's WITH SENIORITY OF 15 YEARS OR LESS(IN PARTICULAR) TO THINK ABOUT.



As we all know that we are approaching the long celebrated end of the term of Tommie Hutto-Blake as president of APFA. I personally have a problem with my union president being too senior to hear me. Ms. Hutto-Blake went into office with over 30 years of seniority and look how its worked out for us. I see that we are already being bombarded with those who wish to run for office with over 25 years of seniority. With promises of taking care of us (Hmm) I have recently had several conversations with senior F/A's on trips the I have picked up that typically go from 25 to 35 years who are friends of the candidates. My concern is that we junior F/A's need to be mindful that our needs are not necessarily the same as theirs.

There are already candidates who are actively campaigning, who are soliciting for money to support them and your votes. I implore you to please be careful about supporting any candidate that cannot understand or shows little to no interest in what your needs are. We have been living with this lack of concern about our needs under the current administration and I don't wish to continue with the same sense of apathy. Don't get me wrong, EVERYONE HAS LOST QUITE A BIT. Before I go any further spare me the " YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR DUES" speech. No one has paid as much in the past 5 years as the junior flight attendants. I really need everyone to take notice that since the initial concessions agreement where everyone gave up money, vacation and the same work rules; and yes it was a huge hit financially for everyone. I personally got pulled back to new hire pay in my 4th year of flying as well as never getting that 5 year salary jump that was so expected. As bad as it was for everyone to lose vacation time earned, how about losing half of your entire vacation as opposed to a second vacation.

Many of us haven't noticed we here at the bottom have been raped repeatedly since the agreement. In the heated conversations that I had with the senior F/A's I had to point out that the trips they fly haven't changed for the most part and that their work days aren't any longer then they were before the agreement. While we have seen our work days extended to 9 hours of flying and up to 14 hours almost daily. I so agree that the senior F/A's have earned the right to not fly those brutal 24 hour four day trips that have 3 or more legs a day with not just short layovers, but minimum time on the ground. Where AA moves departures up by 3 minutes to make the exhausted crew legal for the next 14 hour duty day. Consequently, because the sequences are scheduled so tight, it is not unheard of to have an even small delay to cause at least 2 trips to break up in a month and no way of making up the hours because make up never reaches us. I don't have a problem with senior F/A's not having to do it, my problem lies with a president that allows this to happen with little done about it. Its not an issue if it doesn't effect you, right candidate?

Also I wish to point out that since the agreement junior F/A's have lost positions on the Airbus and 737 which is a drop in seniority in itself. The speaker test only benefited the senior speakers. The purser program is a mess. But, its not an issue if it doesn't effect you, right candidate?.





UNLIMITED PVD's

With PVD's being unlimited now, I cant even spell it. It NEVER reaches us here at the bottom. Say what you want, that is not fair that only the top 5% get the few that are handed out ALL THE TIME!!!.When there were limited PVD's at least we at the bottom had a shot at one occasionally. Its not an issue if it doesn't effect you, right candidate?

.



RESERVE

We all know that reserve is here to stay. However I believe that reserve does not have to be so brutal. I would like to see reserve assignments given out no later than 4 PM. This would really help the quality of life for everyone. I don't think its fair that we have to wait until 7 PM for an assignment while the top 15% are given 3 rounds of make up especially since make up doesn't typically reach the bottom of the list. Its funny how many F/A's drop the premium trips then go on make up and we have to suffer the consequences. If there was just one round of make up after availability has been taken care of then reserve assignments can be released. This is something that can be very especially useful to commuters. Its not an issue if it doesn't effect you, right candidate?



These are just a few of the many issues that face us. If you have concerns that I haven't mentioned, I suggest that you bring them to the floor so they can be heard. I bring this out so you can be informed of what's going on around you and hold the candidates to address these issues. Please don't be fooled into allowing the candidates to give general answers to your questions that aren't helpful and watch that their entourage don't try to intimidate and brush you off. Tommie Hutto-Blake and her cronies were very good at that. Also if you see some of the names in the current administration running again, what changes do you expect will come?? And I don't care who the president is.







SEAN DANIELS

JFK F/A 9 YR SEN.
 
Good Points Made:


THIS IS SOMETHING FOR F/A's WITH SENIORITY OF 15 YEARS OR LESS(IN PARTICULAR) TO THINK ABOUT.



As we all know that we are approaching the long celebrated end of the term of Tommie Hutto-Blake as president of APFA.... I

SEAN DANIELS

JFK F/A 9 YR SEN.


You gotta love Brooklyn Sean

MODERATOR NOTE: DO NOT quote entire lengthy posts, ESPECIALLY when your response immediately follows or is within 5 or so posts of the original one...it wastes bandwidth and makes the thread hard to read.
 
Well, Mr. Sean you are just going to have to learn that those senior flight attendants EARNED the right to take all the best trips whether bidding or on MU. There just might be something in Open time that would stir them to put on a uniform 2 or 3 times a year. In fact, the negotiating committee is thinking of demanding a 4th round of makeup before the reserves get a shot. (Humor, people. Humor.)


"Reserve was crap when I had to serve it for 2 months back in 1964; so, it must always be crap because that's the way it is. It wouldn't be fair for your reserve to be livable because mine wasn't." :lol:
 
Well, Mr. Sean you are just going to have to learn that those senior flight attendants EARNED the right to take all the best trips whether bidding or on MU. There just might be something in Open time that would stir them to put on a uniform 2 or 3 times a year. In fact, the negotiating committee is thinking of demanding a 4th round of makeup before the reserves get a shot. (Humor, people. Humor.)


"Reserve was crap when I had to serve it for 2 months back in 1964; so, it must always be crap because that's the way it is. It wouldn't be fair for your reserve to be livable because mine wasn't." :lol:


If you are gonna roll the seniority card out fine.....so will I as a nearly 20 year F/A who is on reserve. I say the top 10 or so f/as on reserve at the base get to pick their reserve trips. Kinda like a scaled down AVAIL. After MU is handed out, the top 10 on the list get to pick which reserve trips they want and leave the scraps and standby for the junior reserves.....
 
If you are gonna roll the seniority card out fine.....so will I as a nearly 20 year F/A who is on reserve. I say the top 10 or so f/as on reserve at the base get to pick their reserve trips. Kinda like a scaled down AVAIL. After MU is handed out, the top 10 on the list get to pick which reserve trips they want and leave the scraps and standby for the junior reserves.....

If you were elected APFA President, Mr. Baumert, God forbid, this statement proves that you only care about yourself. If you really cared for the membership, you would explore ways that would benefit all, or at least try.

Sure you want to benefit yourself, but what about the rest of us?
 
Great points made on this post! Thank you..A voice made for us " Junior " f/a's with only 9 years seniority. Thus, the reason the "so called" union APFA is a biased union...Again, How many years does the most "Junior" national officer have? The answers will speak for themselves.

What Unity?
 
If you are gonna roll the seniority card out fine.....so will I as a nearly 20 year F/A who is on reserve. I say the top 10 or so f/as on reserve at the base get to pick their reserve trips. Kinda like a scaled down AVAIL. After MU is handed out, the top 10 on the list get to pick which reserve trips they want and leave the scraps and standby for the junior reserves.....


Huh? That's news to me. Con someone elaborate on this for me.

For what it is worth we just had a similar row at work. The disscussion was tow fold. First part was to have departmental seniority for biding. purposes. The second part was about next years shift bid. The former gt "voted down". By whom no one exactly knows. Or suspicion is that the "senior" folks were not concerned and the manager was not convinced. As for the bid, a change was made that requires each scheduler to work an opposite shift. With the exception of 3 over night shifts, all other shifts are either 5a-7a starts or 1p-3p starts. You would have thought the world was coming to an end. There were accusations that the 'junior' folks were ticked off and wanted an am shift and this was a way for them to get one. The main reason this is being done is that for the most part the AM shifts are more of a cake walk (especially the Future AM desk) and the foks who only work AM are not as efficient as the folks who work at night and that by switching shift it will help people become better.

Personally I would like to see a 8 week rotation or even a quarterly rotation of am/pm. I think it would help with efficiency and it would be fair. No reason for someone to get stuck with a night shift year after year. And this is coming from someone who can hold what ever shift I choose to have. Too many people are only concerned about what affects them. What happens to the other guy is of little or no concern. Good luck. My experience is that when the senior folks start to feel threatened, they will circle the wagons and fight till the death if they feel they are having anything thing that they feel they are entitled to taken away. Fairness des not come into play.
 
Personally I would like to see a 8 week rotation or even a quarterly rotation of am/pm. I think it would help with efficiency and it would be fair. No reason for someone to get stuck with a night shift year after year. And this is coming from someone who can hold what ever shift I choose to have. Too many people are only concerned about what affects them. What happens to the other guy is of little or no concern.

Good on you, Gar. This is a PERFECT example of what unionism SHOULD be about--"working conditions were awful on that job when I was in it. I'm going to see to it that those are changed for the people who follow me in that job." Or, "how about we all share the pain a little?" Instead what we get is "reserve was crap during the two months I had to serve it at LGA back in 1964; so, it will always be crap as long as there is breath in my body."

By the way, SkyHighSteve...what you are proposing is already in place at Frontier for ALL reserves. If you are on call for a set number of days, you can log into Open Time and plot your own trips--first come, first served. If you don't plot a trip for yourself by a certain time and there are still trips in Open Time, then, just like our Availability, Crew Scheduling can plot one for you. People low on time (i.e., not plotting for themselves, or not willing to get up at 0500) get plotted first.

What's even better for them is that if a "good trip" drops into Open Time after you have plotted yourself a trip, you can trip trade with Open time for the good trip. So, the trip you originally picked up is the one in Open time. Doesn't matter to Crew Scheduling (at least, not at Frontier) who flies the good trip or who flies the "not so good" trip. They know they still have one trip to cover. Big Deal.
 
Skyhigh or anyone else for that matter,

Can you please explain to me how the top 10 reserves get to choose their trips? Been here for nearly 10 yrs and I I have never seen that happen.
 
Gar, they are not saying that is the way it is. They are saying that is the way it should be. But, if it works at other airlines--like Frontier--why not at AA? Schedulers keep saying "How do we handle manpower planning for the next day, etc.?" But, none of you has ever answered my questions. Let me give you a scenario...

1. I'm on call (reserve) for tomorrow (or a series of days starting tomorrow).
2. At 0500, there are 10 5-hour turns in open time.
3. I plot one on my schedule.
4. At noon (or 4pm or whenever) a 3-day trip (which I am on call all 3 days) drops into open time from the sick list.
5. I trade with Open time for that trip.
6. You now have a 5-hour turn to cover at 1900. Sounds to me that would give you a lot more options instead of trying to find someone who is good for 3 days, not high on time, etc.
7. Even if the trip that drops is another 5-hour turn that I prefer to the one I picked up, you still have one 5 hour turn to cover. What's the difference?

P.S. I don't care that the senior person who is perpetually parked on MU and who almost never accepts a trip when you call has already sent you a Hisend saying that he/she wants that 3-day trip when it drops. That is a Boo-frickin-hoo as far as I am concerned. :lol:
 
OK, got ya. I misread what was originally stated.

As for you reserve ideas. I have a few issues with that I mentioned in the Contract thread.

Like Ops said earlier, I wish we the schedulers and you the FA's could sit down and work the contract instead of APFA flks who have never worked a trip and managers who have never filled a trip.

Until those in power on both sides are the same people who work on the front lines each day, nothing will change. We will have people making decisions affecting our jobs that have no experience on how we do our jobs and that just makes for piss poor working conditions on both sides.
 
I agree GF...Thank you for a great response...those who sit behind desks have no idea what this job "Really" is.!
 
If you are gonna roll the seniority card out fine.....so will I as a nearly 20 year F/A who is on reserve. I say the top 10 or so f/as on reserve at the base get to pick their reserve trips. Kinda like a scaled down AVAIL. After MU is handed out, the top 10 on the list get to pick which reserve trips they want and leave the scraps and standby for the junior reserves.....


I agree you should have a pick of reserve trips, like avbl, for one hour prior to them assigning you your reserve assignment. I don't agree it should be seniority driven.
 
How about this as a solution...

1. Those on Availability get first crack at Open Time--like today--starting at 0500.
2. Reserves then can self-plot between 1200 and 1400. During this time if additional trips drop into open time, Availability people can trade for one of these trips--first come, first served.
3. MU worked from 1400-1700. People on sick MU or low on time get first consideration.
4. Unselected, unassigned trips assigned to next day's reserves who have not self-plotted, as is done today--person with least time gets longest trip for which they are eligible.

Time windows probably need tweaking for operational concerns, but then...I'm a flight attendant. I'm paid to be cute, not smart. :rolleyes:
 
How about this as a solution...

1. Those on Availability get first crack at Open Time--like today--starting at 0500.
2. Reserves then can self-plot between 1200 and 1400. During this time if additional trips drop into open time, Availability people can trade for one of these trips--first come, first served.
3. MU worked from 1400-1700. People on sick MU or low on time get first consideration.
4. Unselected, unassigned trips assigned to next day's reserves who have not self-plotted, as is done today--person with least time gets longest trip for which they are eligible.

Time windows probably need tweaking for operational concerns, but then...I'm a flight attendant. I'm paid to be cute, not smart. :rolleyes:

On a nice sunny day with no issues in the system that is a workable idea. How ever here are few things for consideration.

Unless the clearing the sick list early is involved in your scenario all you will be looking at in open time prior to 4p is a blank page with the exception of some PVDs that may be granted based on how many people are on the sick list.

As I mentioned in the contract suggestions thread, allowing RSV to self plot while nice in theory will pose several operational issues.

Due to the wave effect of the way planning allocates manning there are days through out the month when coverage can be tight for the forecasted sequences. There will be days when I need to tweak the reserve plot so that RSV’s good for a turn fly a turn, two day RSV’s fly a 2 day sequence etc. If the reserves at my base can plot their own stuff the multi day reserves will plot the turn sequences because most of them do not want to be out longer. TA reserves will not plot anything because they know that the TA’s will be gone by the time 1900 rolls around so they will not have to work. Mean while I have 10 multi day sequences and not enough multi day reserves to cover them. It will work just like AVBL works now.

I would like to see MU only used as needed. There are days when we have plenty of reserves, and have no need for MU. Plot the reserves, and call it a day.

If your reserve idea can be turned on and off as needed then I am game. I figure it would be on about 70% or more. If you include limitations in the system such as if you are a multi-day reserve and you are with in lets say 10 hours of the reserve hour average than you can plot what you want. If you are over the average you are limited to plotting a TA if you are under the average you CANNOT plot a TA. This will prevent the hours getting skewed. Ina month like Dec I can see everyone wanting multi day trips in the beginning of the month and come the 25th I have no one left.

Like was mentioned earlier, it wold be lovely if we FA’s and crew skd could get together and hammer some stuff out. I am pretty sure we could come to an agreement that worked.