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Yet all those who have managed to glimpse at the document agree that it makes interesting reading. It concludes that there is not much future in the much vaunted developed of all electric-powered cars.Instead, it suggests that the traditional combustion engine powered by petrol, diesel, ethanol or new biofuels still offers the most realistic prospect of developing cleaner vehicles.
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There's a hard wall out there......unless storage technology improves by huge leaps....I think viable electric cars are a pipe dream.

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I'm all for being "Environmentally Conscience " but , I'm not for "Pseudoscience" and having it forced fed by Big Brother, Other Countries and the "GUY" that invented the internet ! :blink:
 
delldude said:
There's a hard wall out there......unless storage technology improves by huge leaps....I think viable electric cars are a pipe dream.

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I do not think that is accurate. Given all that mankind has accomplished over the last century such as vaccines, landing on the moon, air travel (including super sonic flight), computers just too name a few. I find it hard to believe that we do not have the capability to create a power storage system for vehicles. I would not be surprised (but have no way of proving) that the technology may exist but is being kept under wraps by companies who have a vested interest in the technology not being used (yet). I also suspect that had we (the US government) been investing in alternate energy since the 1970's more than token funding that we would already be well on our way toward energy independence rather than the position that we are in now.

Tesla already has a car that will go over 200 miles on a charge and put quite a few sport cars to shame in the process. Were that technology tamed down a bit and stuck in a Mini, Cobalt, Focus .. etc I suspect you would end up with a 300 mile per charge commuter car. The more that are purchased, the cheaper the technology becomes for the consumer.


Southwind


As far as the climate is concerned, I fail to see how anyone can say that 7 billion inhabitants on this planet along with all the stuff we produce is not having an adverse effect on the planets climate. I have not heard anything about that report but the title alone makes me suspect of its objectivity.

BTW, why would you want to be environmentally conscious if global warming is not real? That seem like locking your door if there is no crime. Why bother?
 
Wow!!!!! I can't beleive you guys can't see what's right in front of your faces. I don't need Al Gore or anyone else to force feed me this information. Either for the pro or con side of the science. I just needed the idea brought to my attention. The rest only requires common sense to see that many of earths glaciers really have receded over the past 25 years. CO2 levels really are off the charts, historically speaking. There must be something driving this phenomenon??? Right???

Either way, isn't it a wise idea to leave this earth to our children in the best condition possible.

PS: I don't think you guys are against a greener earth.... I think you fellas are just trying to get people like me worked up. Shake things up a little on this message board... It worked momentarilly.

Merry Christmas everyone.... ;)
 
PineyBob said:
The arrogance of the Left is amazing.

To think that we as mere mortals could mess with Mother Nature. If you think about it we as humans couldn't even stave off Hurricane Katrina so how could we ever have an effect on the climate?

The Greatest American hypocite, Mr Private Jet flying, Multiple Mansion, Tabacco Money, king of the Carbon Footprint Al Gore is full of feces.
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The arrogance of many of us on the left (myself, more center) may be amazing. But the ignorance of some on the right is frightening...

Just how did we as "mortals" attempt to stave off Katrina? I think we would all agree that we have no control over natural disasters. No Doubt. God takes care of matters like that. Could we have lessoned the effects of Katrina?? If the city that took the brunt of the damage (New Orleans) wasn't built below sea-level..perhaps. Yes... the damage would have still been terrible. Would it have been less devistating?? Perhaps.

Why IS Al Gore the face for global warming? My best guess is there needed to be a recognizable face with an education who could deliver this message. One who has a true interest on the subject. With all of his short-comings, he obviously does share a true interest in speading the word about global warming.

Is it real??? I don't know. Does it have merit? I really think it does.

As a previous poster pointed out.
"As far as the climate is concerned, I fail to see how anyone can say that 7 billion inhabitants on this planet along with all the stuff we produce is not having an adverse effect on the planets climate."

How can you argue with common sense??? But just as I have my point-of-view. There will be many more who will disagree. I can deal with that. I just don't understand how anyone could argue that EITHER way,we are all better off by taking care of our earth.
 
Are you willing to bet the farm that no one will be able to prove it? According to engineers a bumble bee is not aerodynamic enough to fly and yet .... The theory of evolution cannot be proven much less reproduced and yet ...

Nearly 7 billion people inhabit this planet. Can you prove that we have not adversely affected the environment that we live in? Can you prove that the earth will recover once we wipe our selves off it? Common sense tells me that by laying down the countless miles of concrete for roads, building concrete cities that absorb and radiate so much heat that they create their own little weather patterns, the tons and tons of human waste, building waste, pollution. The clear cutting of forests. The contamination of the oceans. The extinction of countless species of animals. All this and you are going to look me in the computer screen and tell me that we are not having an adverse affect on this planet? That it is unlikely that we are affecting the climate? Really? As far as I am concerned, that is absurd.

Mere mortals cannot change the climate? Are you sure you want to stick with that story? Talk to any environmental scientist or any meteorologists and ask them what a few dozen high yield nukes detonated a few hundred feet above ground level would do to your bullet proof environment. Put a high yield nuke in the middle of a hurricane and I would guess you could blow the hurricane apart. I am not saying this is an advisable course of action but to say that man kind does not have the ability to change the environment is more absurd than to argue we have not already done so to a certain degree.


Man kind has amassed enough fire power to make this planet uninhabitable except for the possibility of a few germs and bugs. Some have argued that we have enough fire power to blow the atmosphere off of the earth. Think about that one for a few minutes. My recollection of the article said that every single nuke would have to be spread out over the planet and detonated at the same time so it is an unlikely scenario but a possibility none the less.
 
I'd say seven billion would have some impact on the environment...how much is absorbable is another issue.

Poisoning the oceans and air should be limited as much as possible.

CO2 emissions....root cause? BTSOOM.There is a lot of variables including mother nature.

Its also known that to accurately make any assumption or prediction,one must have all the data and variables factored in which even some of the most astute scientists agree cannot be done due to the fact that they have a limited knowledge of the way it works here on earth.

As far as limiting factors regarding hurricanes....last time I noticed ,hurricanes are the result of seasonal radiant heating of the oceans in and around the equatorial zones and are a result of that heating venting off into space through vortexes.

Melting glaciers....does one expect everything here on earth to remain status quo for ever? Sure,there is some melting of glaciers in some places but at the same time there are also growing glaciers too.But funny...you don't hear much about that do you?

A lot of the GW hysteria was based on temperature rises studied before 2005....since then it seems to be cooling.....but you don't hear much about that either and if you do its automatically attributed to GW without explanation.

Sea level rises attributed to melting glaciers....how about thermal expansion of the oceans through solar and volcanic heating? Boil a pot of water...it will expand..so will the ocean.

Alternate energy sounds good.....but for the most part require vast amounts of hydrocarbon based fuels to produce and maintain...don't hear much about that either,do you?

So the good guys(Pro GW) come out with claims,some valid,some invalid and I think in some cases jump on unproven data to some extent,then the bad guys (Skeptics) make counter claims whether or not they are right , they are hung out to dry.Its quite apparent there is no consensus....there's only one answer.

It is good karma to limit ones impact in a lot of things in life including your short visit here.
What has to be looked into very wisely is environmental impact and economic impact and how much can we really pay for without globally tanking our already withering global economy.

What must be achieved is a consensus between the good guys and bad guys as to what realistically can be realistically done.

All these fixes in place to limit this and that then mother nature pops about 5 good volcanoes off and shuts up everyone.

Mother Earth....She's about change.....4 billion years worth.
 
Tesla already has a car that will go over 200 miles on a charge and put quite a few sport cars to shame in the process. Were that technology tamed down a bit and stuck in a Mini, Cobalt, Focus .. etc I suspect you would end up with a 300 mile per charge commuter car. The more that are purchased, the cheaper the technology becomes for the consumer.
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I still think for an electric car to run any extreme distance on par with a tank of gas....storage capacity is going to have to have some technology breakthrough.

11.5 second battery
 
Seatacus said:
And where did you get this idea?
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Piney said us mere mortals did not have the ability to alter the environment or stop a hurricane. I merely offered that as proof that we do have the capability. While the result may not be desired, we do have the ability to stop a hurricane and alter our environment.
 
PineyBob said:
Sure we'll use a nuke on a hurricane about the same time as the Great Environmental hypocrite Al Gore parks his private jet and down sizes his mansion. IOW NEVER!
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Apparently you missed your own point. You said that man kind did not have the ability to alter our environment. Nuclear winter is a very real concept. You said that we did not have the ability to alter a hurricane. I suggested that we did by way of a high yield nuke in the eye. I never said it was a wise idea to use a nuke or suggest that it would ever happen. I merely stated that we did indeed have the ability to alter the environment that we live in.

To suggest that the presence of 7 billion people along with all their stuff and waste would not later the environment is absurd. Some of the changes may be a natural process, some may be induced by our mere existence. Our lack of knowledge about the world in which we live in should not be the determining factor about how we continue. There is no 'do over' button. Should we screw the planet up beyond it's ability to recover (not sure we have not already crossed that line) our children are screwed. Personally, I would rather not play Russian Roulette with our future. Seems you are.
 
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