A321 Rumors

[Just Plane Crazy]

The A321 would be a logical addition for UA.

The B767 is aging and the maintenance is costly. The B777 is more than capable to take over the routs of the B767. So retiring the B767 will be a matter of cost saving. In regard to the B757, there is a growing market for this aircraft in the Cargo Business. At this moment is lucrative to sell them to airlines that would convert them to freighters.

Retiring these two fleets would open the door for the A321. One crew can fly 3 (4) different aircraft types [ A319 / A320 / A321 and A318 ]. Cost for crew training would be lower and flexibility of crew scheduling would be enhanced. Not mentioning the cost saving on maintenance (fewer spares in stock) and a lower cost per seat mile.

And last but not least, the A319/320/321 are capable to be equipped for containerized belly cargo. In the long run that could make it easier and faster to load and unload not mentioning cargo/baggage safety issues. Neither the B757 nor the B737 have that capability.

That leaves me with a thought, is it possible that we might look forward to a leaner structured UA with only three to maybe four aircraft types:

B747 (will be retired as soon as the 7E7 is available)
B777 (will take over current B767 routs)
A32X (will fly all routs currently handled by B737/B757 and A319/320)
CRJ (for all Express routes)

 

[mga707]

The A321 would be a logical addition for UA.

The B767 is aging and the maintenance is costly.

N673/674/675/676/677UA were all delivered in 2000/01. Not quite "aging"!
Quite a capacity gap between an A321 and a B767-300.

 

[Just Plane Crazy]

The A321 would be a logical addition for UA.

The B767 is aging and the maintenance is costly.

N673/674/675/676/677UA were all delivered in 2000/01. Not quite "aging"!
Quite a capacity gap between an A321 and a B767-300.

Yes between B767 and A321. But as I said previously, B777 could take over B767 routs and A321 the B757's.

The 00/01 delivered B767 aircrafts are not the majority of the fleet. UA needs to restructure and retiring the B767/B757 fleet would just be a logical conclusion.

 

[coolflyingfool]

I am not sure what the data says, but operating the A321 in DEN on a hot day in the simmer, may not be fun. Listening to US chatter, the A321 was not a good plane for their long haul runs. IF you kept the A321 on flights under, say 2 or 2 1/2 hours, it might do well as a replacement. But, the 757's run on some long thin routes where a 767-300 would be way too much. Just my thoughts.......

 

[FA4UA]

No Way could the 321 replace the 752! Number of reasons: Hot and High not as easily done with 321's, not enough range on transcon flights, the fact we have no extra cash for aircraft acquisition....

I agree that the training would be streamlined, we must not ignore the importance that the 757 has had in UA's history. We have 99 757 and they have been the reason we have such strong East and West traffic. The range and strength of this plane put the 321 to shame.

FA4UA

 

[Bear96]

One crew can fly 3 (4) different aircraft types [ A319 / A320 / A321 and A318 ]. Cost for crew training would be lower and flexibility of crew scheduling would be enhanced.

A pilot can correct me on this... but I thought per FARs, even though the cockpit may be similar or identical, an individual pilot can only be current / qualified on two different A/C at one time.

 

[ZMAN777]

One crew can fly 3 (4) different aircraft types [ A319 / A320 / A321 and A318 ]. Cost for crew training would be lower and flexibility of crew scheduling would be enhanced.

A pilot can correct me on this... but I thought per FARs, even though the cockpit may be similar or identical, an individual pilot can only be current / qualified on two different A/C at one time.

Actually, the 320 family of aircraft (319/320/321) is considered one (1) type rating. I think this also includes the 318. Someone from Frontier would probably know for sure.

It's my understanding that the performance of the 321 in terms of range and high density altitude are a bit limiting. A newer, higher thrust engine to correct the performance problems would require recertification of the a/c and wouldn't address the range problem. IF those issues were resolved I agree that it would make some sense to look at it.

In the meantime the 757 remains a great a/c.

Cheers,
Z B)

 

[etops1]

i am u employee and i will tell you that the a321 is a dog compared to the 757/767. no way would ua want to replace the boeings for a321's. that would be a really dumb thing to do. it has no power and it takes for ever for it to reach alt. and def not good for den.

 

[UnitedChicago]

B747 (will be retired as soon as the 7E7 is available)
B777 (will take over current B767 routs)
A32X (will fly all routs currently handled by B737/B757 and A319/320)
CRJ (for all Express routes)

I don't believe that the 7E7 would take over for the 7474. Completely different airplanes for passenger mix and routes. UA still needs a long haul for the Pacific.

I see the 7E7 more likely as an eventual replacement to the 757.

If UA orders anything - I can see it being more A319/A320's. Lets emerge first .

BTW - Great recent trip to SEA. Upgraded on the flight home and the captain sent back personal notes on his biz card. You all are doing GREAT!

 

[FWAAA]

B747 (will be retired as soon as the 7E7 is available)
B777 (will take over current B767 routs)
A32X (will fly all routs currently handled by B737/B757 and A319/320)
CRJ (for all Express routes)

I don't believe that the 7E7 would take over for the 7474. Completely different airplanes for passenger mix and routes. UA still needs a long haul for the Pacific.

I see the 7E7 more likely as an eventual replacement to the 757.

I agree. Boeing has touted the 7E7 as a direct replacement for the 767, not the 747. And I also agree that if the 7E7 is everything it is hyped to be, it might replace some 757 flying.

Maybe UAL and AA will place some 777s on the JFK-LAX transcons if traffic continues to grow (as each wrestles with the retirement of the 762s).

At some point, 777s will probably replace most (if not all) 747 flying.

 

[Cosmo]

Currently, United's B757s fly a number of LAX/SFO-Hawaii trips each day, in addition to a lot of transcons. So unless the A321 has the range and ETOPS capabilities for these Hawaiian sectors of approximately 2,500 sm, IMHO we won't see that aircraft type in United's fleet.

 

[phasersonstun2]

So UAL wants a 321, huh? OK... but with one type rating comes one altitude. By this I mean the 321 going transcon will be stuck at 310 or 330 for at least three hours. Not a great option if the rides suck an the guys at 370 have the seat belt sign off. Also, if you're tight on fuel, you won't or can't descend into the 20's for a bette ride. The 321 holds 92% of a 757 in seating. Considering the penalty in performance, a few more feet of wing and a few thousand lbs. of thrust per aside would have made it into THE narrow body.

 

[nwa_dc10]

I think the A321 is at best a "stopgap" measure for operators that needed something larger than the A320, but didn't want to add a completely new type to their fleets (e.g. 757/767 or A300/A310). It probably works OK for short-haul routes, but can't keep up with the 757 on longer runs (I suspect that's why the majority of European charter carriers fly the 757, e.g. Condor).

 

[Bear96]

Actually, the 320 family of aircraft (319/320/321) is considered one (1) type rating. I think this also includes the 318. Someone from Frontier would probably know for sure.

I understand it is one type rating but I thought there was still a restriction that even with the type you can only be current on up to two variations (or whatever the technical term is)....

But maybe my overactive imagination made that up.

 

[TravelDude]

Ok, so we all know Airbus is always trying to out do Boeing. Likewise, Boeing is usually trying to out do Airbus.

So, with the A321 why did Airbus not increase the engine and other things to make it more closely compete with the B757?

Up until this conversation I thought the A321 did compete with B757, now as I read above I was clearly mistaken.

Does Airbus have any plans to change the A321-xxx so that it could compete better with the B757?

Would those changes possibly make it so it would not be considered the same type rating as the A320/A319?

I know, a lot of what if or what about questions, but hey you all seem to be semi experts, so teach me!