AA adds new routes to all global regions

AA89

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Jun 1, 2010
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Sweet, DFW-LIM is back. No more MIA bottleneck. I love AA management again..........
 

eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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BPT and FAR no doubt coming back due to the energy boom.

ICN is long overdue for the AA network. Was hoping to see HKG make an appearance, but I'm guessing that funneling that onto CX is still a far better network proposition, and certainly better service.
 

FWAAA

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Jan 5, 2003
10,251
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The Flyertalk fanbois continue to fantasize about using their systemwide upgrades from DFW to HKG because they don't work for employers willing to pay for CX J fares; My constant refrain is that if it made a whole lot of sense to fly from DFW to HKG, then Cathay Pacific would already be doing it. I said the same thing for several years about ORD and finally, CX added a nonstop from ORD to HKG.

Besides, for top tier AAdvantage elites, operational upgrades on CX are not all that uncommon, at least here at LAX.
 
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WorldTraveler

WorldTraveler

Corn Field
Dec 5, 2003
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I suspect the biggest reason why DFW-HKG isn't being started yet is because it would really have to involve a JV for both airlines to be fully committed to it. For now, AA is focusing its JV efforts on Japan and there is competition between Japan and Hong Kong for connecting traffic. AA stands to gain the greatest connecting capacity to Asia via Japan first. If AA's efforts at ICN are successful, then developing other cities will make sense... but AA is obviously attempting to siphon off some of the connecting traffic that is flowing over Japan as well as to compete w/ both DL and UA who have nonstop US-ICN flights.
DL is said to be in talks w/ KE about a Pacific JV that would combine the strengths of DL's Japan operations and KE's ICN hub; it is possible that AA's decision to start ICN flights ties into that as well... it could be much harder to start an ICN flight for AA later.
 
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silverbird007

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Aug 1, 2012
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Also starting ORD-DUS, which is Air Berlins hub. Next year Air Berlin will be moving to Berlin's new airport BER, AA will probably move that flt to BER. Also a friend from Germany read on a German website that AA has plans to fly MIA-BER, as well as DFW-BER when the new airport opens. He also said AA will be using 3 class 777s on some of the routes. I believe I read the 777-200s are going 2 class so I assume it will be on the new 777-300s, which are 3 class. Very interesting and if true its about time. Germany is the worlds 3rd or 4th largest economy? Also read that AA has 6 gates at BER.
 

sinkingship

Newbie
Jul 24, 2012
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BPT and FAR no doubt coming back due to the energy boom.

ICN is long overdue for the AA network. Was hoping to see HKG make an appearance, but I'm guessing that funneling that onto CX is still a far better network proposition, and certainly better service.
Great news AE flying non-stop DFW-FAR. Now AA/AE needs to get on board and start flying to Minot, ND. That airport is jammed with travelers. I was told this week by a agent up there that you cant get out of MOT on Wednesday or Thursday.
 

FlyUs

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Jul 28, 2004
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Also starting ORD-DUS, which is Air Berlins hub. Next year Air Berlin will be moving to Berlin's new airport BER, AA will probably move that flt to BER. Also a friend from Germany read on a German website that AA has plans to fly MIA-BER, as well as DFW-BER when the new airport opens. He also said AA will be using 3 class 777s on some of the routes. I believe I read the 777-200s are going 2 class so I assume it will be on the new 777-300s, which are 3 class. Very interesting and if true its about time. Germany is the worlds 3rd or 4th largest economy? Also read that AA has 6 gates at BER.
6 gates in BER?? Why??
 

silverbird007

Senior
Aug 1, 2012
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Probably because BER will be Air Berlin's main hub once the new airport is opened. Air Berlin will have alot of connections all over Europe, the Middle East etc. Im sure with the new airport the connections will be alot smoother than LHR or MAD, this airport has been built brand new from the ground up on the old East Berlin airport. Plus Berlin is also the capital of Europes largest economy. Also Berlin is an awesome city just to visit. Maybe AA is finally waking up and doing what they should have been doing a long time ago.
 

eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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6 gates in BER?? Why??

Nobody has gates at BER. It's a common use facility.

Also starting ORD-DUS, which is Air Berlins hub. Next year Air Berlin will be moving to Berlin's new airport BER, AA will probably move that flt to BER.

Uh, AA isn't operating the flight. They're codewhoring on AB metal, that is until AB decides they don't want to be in oneworld (new owner Etihad may sway them out of oneworld faster than they joined).

He also said AA will be using 3 class 777s on some of the routes.

Quite unlikely. The Eurozone is in the toilet, and AA has no presence in BER today, so why on Earth would they put their largest airplane there?....

I suspect Germany won't see the 773 for a very long time.
 

silverbird007

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Aug 1, 2012
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I havent seen anything in writing, but i do know that when I fly into FRA , usually on United, we have to park out on the tarmac and take a bus to the terminal, thats how overcrowded FRA is. Im talking about 777s sometime 747s, they usually leave non revs at the gate. thats how full their flights are to FRA, (of course that is probably the Star Alliance's largest connection hub) United is flying 757s to TXL (Berlins current airport) that airport is the same way its at almost double its official capacity, and the flights are full. MUC flights, same thing. Germany is in the Eurozone but if you pay attention to the news, Germany is bailing out all of the other Eurozone countries, and I dont think they are borrowing the money from China. Just look around any parking lot in the US and count the BMWs, Mercedes, Audis, VWs. That is just the German auto industry, Germany's economy is doing fine. I travel to Germany 2 or 3 times every year. Ill talk to my friend and get him to email me the articles he was talking about. (if they are in English) Germany has the biggest economy in Europe and one of the biggest in the world. Maybe if we hadnt given all our flying to British Airways we might be doing better in Germany. United has many flights to LHR without an alliance partner there. If they can fly 777s and 747s to LHR we should be able to do something in Germany? You sound like Arpey talking. We cant do this we cant do that, look where that mentality has gotten AA. Its in the news as well as jetnet, AA is flying ORD-DUS, as well as DFW-LIM,DFW- Seoul (cant remember the airport code), also JFK -DUB. Check it out! I hope your not dissappointed. Oh and btw some people say the US economy is in the toilet, so what should we do just shut down? I hope AA is finally turning around. With the new lower labor costs, pension cuts, etc we should be able to compete anywhere.
 

eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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You're probably right -- after all, you go to Germany a couple times a year. I've worked in France for the last year, so what would I know?...

You're quite wrong about AA doing worse to Germany because of BA... AA lost Germany when UA and LH joined up around 1994, well before Star Alliance being formed in 1997, 3 years before oneworld was formed, and 13 years before JV with BA was finally launched. Before UA and LH partnered, AA was the one codesharing on LH, and they had service to DUS, STR, MUC, TXL, and FRA. Once LH shifted to UA as their preferred partner, all but FRA wound up with 30-40% load factors. I remember being one of about 60 people on a TXL-ORD flight...

Germany is a larger economy, but it's also a fragmented market. Traffic is split amongst FRA, MUC, BER and DUS.

Connecting traffic is pretty well split in half between MUC and FRA, but Air Berlin is gaining some ground over DUS. Yet to be seen how BER will work out...

For DL and AA, anything they carry to Germany is likely terminating traffic. There's very little reason for either one to transfer customers to/from LH at MUC or FRA. The problem with that is that BER, FRA and DUS are all between 4M and 5M people. That's the size of Houston or Phoenix, give or take a couple hundred thousand. And BER is only 3M people (which makes the notion of AA running their own 773's there just that much more ludicrous).

If it weren't for the connecting flows from LH, you wouldn't see UA offering as much service as they do. I'd guess around 60% of the traffic at MUC and FRA is connecting.

London? Yep, UA's still flying a lot of metal into LHR. It's the busiest airport in Europe, and with LGW, accounted for over 100M passengers last year. FRA accounted for ~56M.

London has a metro population of about 8M people, and is the banking capitol of the world. For business, it has far more ties to the US than Germany does. Unlike Germany, I'd guess >70% of the US-UK traffic really is heading to London.

I'll see if I can pull the numbers to show the relative O&D markets vs. flow traffic at LHR, FRA, and MUC. Either way, you can't just look at GDP and decide there's a lot of demand. And we certainly know that load factors have nothing to do with profitability.
 
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WorldTraveler

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Dec 5, 2003
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All true... even if Germany is doing well itself, it is still an island on a continent that continues to face signfiicant economic challenges. They can't overcome the influence of their neighbors on their own economy and the expectations that many of their neighbors have that Germany should be the source of money to bail out Europe.

Germany has done a far better job of diversifying air travel away from one or two large hubs as exists in most other large European countries and the new Berlin airport is a once in a lifetime opportunity to add capacity to Europe's major airports... but LH and other carriers already have a great deal of hub capacity elsewhere that is used to compete for traffic flowing OVER Europe and LH will throw enough capacity into Berlin to make sure that no carriers have the potential to erode LH's historic strengths.

Even with the new Berlin airport, Germany still suffers from the disadvantage of being the most distant of the major alliance hubs from the US. LHR, AMS/CDG, and to a lesser extent MAD, have geographic advantages that allow those hubs to connect more of the US-European market than German airports - but LHR is severely capacity constrained.
AA's efforts to diversify into Germany are part of oneworld's needs to create new traffic flows, including potentially with AB. But AB is a very different business model than the traditional network carriers and it remains to be seen how well customers will accept them as part of an alliance when they could choose other carriers who have partners w/ other full-fledged network/legacy carriers, either in the US or Europe.
It also doesn't change the reality that the rest of the industry is chasing a shrinking passenger base - or at least one that is not growing much, if at all - and AA will have to make these new markets work in the backyards of carriers that will be highly protective of their own turf.
 
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silverbird007

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Aug 1, 2012
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6 gates in BER?? Why??
I meant to say slots not gates.This is what a friend from Germany said that he read on a German website. I havent seen it but he said that UAL has 16, AA has 6 and delta has 2? Like I said I didnt see this in print just what my friend told me.