AA employees got shares for what reason?

[zflygrl]

I have heard a lot about this share hand out but I really don't know why.....can someone out there explain why? For I think the AWA and US Airlines folks should get a taste......or they should be allowed to buy AAL stock through their 401k accts.....but that is not allowed. Didn't the AA pilots just get a pay out from their frozen pensions? There are so many stories flying around right now.....
Thank you in advance for any and all answers I may get.

Be well and safe......

 

[700UW]

They were given shares in the company based on each individuals concession value.
 
And no one from US' side gave concessions in AA's bankruptcy so your not entitled to a penny.
 
Amazing the lack of knowledge in the world.
 
No one gets a payout from a frozen pension plan, only when they retire are they able to collect for the years of service up until the plan was frozen.

 

[FWAAA]

It's common in Ch 11 reorganizations for affected employees to receive stock in the newly reorganized company to compensate them for the inevitable concessions they will suffer.   
 
AA filed for Ch 11 primarily for one reason:   to force the pilots and FAs to accept more efficient contracts that would lower AA's labor costs.   Those two groups represented the big dollars.   The TWU-represented employees also saw numerous concessions.    In exchange for their concessions, the pilots negotiated a claim equal to 13.5% of the new stock.   The FAs received 3% and the TWU employees received 4.8%.    Agents, support staff and non-executive management received another ~2% or so.   
 
US Airways wasn't in bankruptcy and didn't negotiate concessions in 2012, so the US employees didn't get any stock.    

 

[Slopoke]

I have heard a lot about this share hand out but I really don't know why.....can someone out there explain why? For I think the AWA and US Airlines folks should get a taste......or they should be allowed to buy AAL stock through their 401k accts.....but that is not allowed. Didn't the AA pilots just get a pay out from their frozen pensions? There are so many stories flying around right now.....
Thank you in advance for any and all answers I may get.

Be well and safe......

Why should you be entitled to be part of  the equity distribution?  US and AWA employees were not part of AA and never gave concessions to AA. We AA employees got the stocks because of all we gave up to AA.

 

[Mach85ER]

Pilots turned down the "Last Best Final Offer" from the company. Turns out it wasn't the Last offer and the equity was added to the second offer through negotiations with the UCC. Horton was against it, probably because he knew it diluted his power and gave the pilots a say about his future.

The other employee groups had "me too" clauses and tagged along.

Correct me if I'm wrong about the above. Everything about the last couple years is fading into a slurry in my brain.

LCC and AWA didn't have a seat at the poker table. The equity for the pilots was 13.5% of the "new AA" or 13.5% of the 72% share of the new AA group with LCC.

The pilots with the largest amount of shares probably got 2300-2400 in the first bunch, around 48% of the final value. The average per pilot is supposed to be around $100K total pretax. Most is for the retirement future value loss among other calculated losses addressed in the settlement. It would have been zero if we voted YES the first time.

Distribution format is like other employees

 

[zflygrl]

People there is no need to become nasty.....I asked a question.....I did not insult nor did I throw insults. As for the lack of knowledge ...... The only stupid question is the one not asked....knowledge comes from asking questions. But thank you for the answers.

 

[zflygrl]

Boy...... From the way you guys are on the attack.....I see a lot of court time in your future. Remember AA was the airline in bankruptcy not the other way round......remember that. I know you feel you where on your way out of your dark days but the truth is you got gobbled up......as for not being at the poker table.....you guys where playing with IOUs.....and that doesn't count. The loser should not be paid......for losing.

 

[AANOTOK]

Pilots turned down the "Last Best Final Offer" from the company. Turns out it wasn't the Last offer and the equity was added to the second offer through negotiations with the UCC. Horton was against it, probably because he knew it diluted his power and gave the pilots a say about his future.

The other employee groups had "me too" clauses and tagged along.

Correct me if I'm wrong about the above. Everything about the last couple years is fading into a slurry in my brain.

LCC and AWA didn't have a seat at the poker table. The equity for the pilots was 13.5% of the "new AA" or 13.5% of the 72% share of the new AA group with LCC.

The pilots with the largest amount of shares probably got 2300-2400 in the first bunch, around 48% of the final value. The average per pilot is supposed to be around $100K total pretax. Most is for the retirement future value loss among other calculated losses addressed in the settlement. It would have been zero if we voted YES the first time.

Distribution format is like other employees

Hey Mach,
 
You, $100k pretax dollar - Me, (FSC) $12,000 (maybe)
Thanks for allowing us to "tag along".
Oh, by the way Mach, my concessions hurt me just as much if not more than yours.
Some of you folks never cease to amaze me!!

 

[Overspeed]

Boy...... From the way you guys are on the attack.....I see a lot of court time in your future. Remember AA was the airline in bankruptcy not the other way round......remember that. I know you feel you where on your way out of your dark days but the truth is you got gobbled up......as for not being at the poker table.....you guys where playing with IOUs.....and that doesn't count. The loser should not be paid......for losing.

 
AA did not get "gobbled up." AA mgmt decided to use the dirty trick of going to BK to get out of the pensions, get the ability to outsource more, and offload some bad debt. AA went in to BK with so much cash they did not need DIP financing like all other previous airline mergers. US needed this merger much more than AA did and Parker has been looking for a suitor for some time now. The deal only went forward because of the APA, APFA, and TWU backing it, without the AA unions and the possibility of labor unrest I doubt this merger would have made it.
 
Bottom line is there should be no puffing out of chests by any labor group. US, HP, TW, and AA union members all got shafted from BK and mergers. Now is not the time to be arguing about who should get a "taste" or which company is the real driver of this merger. We - labor - are along for the ride and now is the time for all organized labor groups to start coming together. US has yet to settle with the IAM and no JCBA will happen for some time until this happens. 

 

[cltrat]

AA did not get "gobbled up." AA mgmt decided to use the dirty trick of going to BK to get out of the pensions, get the ability to outsource more, and offload some bad debt. AA went in to BK with so much cash they did not need DIP financing like all other previous airline mergers. US needed this merger much more than AA did and Parker has been looking for a suitor for some time now. The deal only went forward because of the APA, APFA, and TWU backing it, without the AA unions and the possibility of labor unrest I doubt this merger would have made it.
 
Bottom line is there should be no puffing out of chests by any labor group. US, HP, TW, and AA union members all got shafted from BK and mergers. Now is not the time to be arguing about who should get a "taste" or which company is the real driver of this merger. We - labor - are along for the ride and now is the time for all organized labor groups to start coming together. US has yet to settle with the IAM and no JCBA will happen for some time until this happens.

agreed overspeed we all are going to have to stick together or they will rape us all

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I do feel the need to point out that AA had more money in the bank than U.S. Air was worth so the idea that U.S. Air "Gobbled up" AA is hilarious.  Parker took advantage of the BK and sucked up to the creditors and weaseled his way in.  America West didn't "Gobble up"  U.S. Air either.  Sorry to disappoint you though. 

 

[Show me the money]

Boy...... From the way you guys are on the attack.....I see a lot of court time in your future. Remember AA was the airline in bankruptcy not the other way round......remember that. I know you feel you where on your way out of your dark days but the truth is you got gobbled up......as for not being at the poker table.....you guys where playing with IOUs.....and that doesn't count. The loser should not be paid......for losing.

So all of us at AA are losers. Nice to know that. Home many times were you in BK. Welcome to AA from all of us LOSERS.

 

[MetalMover]

 Remember AA was the airline in bankruptcy not the other way round......

And THAT is the reason AA employees got the stock.

 

[FWAAA]

Pilots turned down the "Last Best Final Offer" from the company. Turns out it wasn't the Last offer and the equity was added to the second offer through negotiations with the UCC. Horton was against it, probably because he knew it diluted his power and gave the pilots a say about his future.

I'm sorry, but the historian in me forces me to point out that the rejected LBFO contained the 13.5% equity claim:
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/business/american-airlines-and-pilots-union-are-close-to-accord.html?_r=0
 
The UCC wasn't too happy that Horton offered the pilots the equity, as they had no idea that new AA would make them whole - they thought that the pilots' stock would come out of their allocation.   Of course, nobody knew that new AA would have a market cap of about $14 billion (that's the current value of the 72% portion).   
 

The pilots with the largest amount of shares probably got 2300-2400 in the first bunch, around 48% of the final value. The average per pilot is supposed to be around $100K total pretax. Most is for the retirement future value loss among other calculated losses addressed in the settlement. It would have been zero if we voted YES the first time.

My back of the envelope calculation shows the pilots' 13.5% claim worth about $1.9 billion today, so you should be getting more than $100k on average.   

 

[swamt]

FWAAA,  is it also true that it was not their best, as well as last offer?  Didn't the pilots also get their 401K % raised to 16 or 17% contribution made by company with "NO" input from the pilots, from the 13-14% in original agreement?   There were other improvements made in the 2nd offer from the company to the pilots, but I do not remember what they were all including.  However, I do remember myself posting that the mechanics should reject and get back to the table just like the pilots did and get improvements, but the TWU just laid down and didn't even put up a fight, didn't even try.  They saw that the company was bluffing about their threats, and they still pushed hard to sell it to the membership, then they later sold the membership again and rid of the P.S. for the raise where they could have had both...