AA forgave pilot union debt as part of concessions

[Buck]

AA forgave pilot union debt as part of concessions

By Bloomberg, AP and Staff Reports

7/19/2003

American Airlines forgave a $26 million debt owed by its pilots union over a 1999 work stoppage as part of talks in April to secure $1.8 billion in annual labor savings from its employees.

The action was disclosed by American in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission and confirmed by the Allied Pilots Association.

The $26 million was the unpaid portion of a $45.5 million fine imposed on the union by a federal judge who found that the pilots ignored his order to end an 11-day job action. The work stoppage forced American to cancel 6,600 flights in February 1999, costing the company $250 million and snarling air traffic nationwide.

It was part of the overall negotiating process, said Gregg Overman, spokesman for the pilots'' union.

The $26 million wasn''t counted in $660 million in wage, job and benefit cuts pilots provided in the April agreement with the carrier, he said.

American would not comment on the action beyond the fact that it was part of our new labor agreement with the APA, said spokesman Al Becker.

American negotiated the pilot concessions along with $620 million in savings from mechanics and other ground workers, $340 million from flight attendants and $180 million from management and nonunion workers.

The savings helped American avert a bankruptcy filing.

 

[Buck]

Not to me. I am curious and "just curious" Did the pilots union increase dues to help pay the debt?

 

[Skyhungry]

Old news.

 

[AA80Driver]

----------------
On 7/19/2003 12:44:10 PM Buck wrote:

Not to me. I am curious and "just curious" Did the pilots union increase dues to help pay the debt?

----------------​

No, they negotiated a payment schedule with the company (with interest). Ironically, with the debt gone, a dues increase now is highly likely due to the reduction of revenue associated with the pay cuts and large number of furloughs.

 

[Bob Owens]

$26 million?

Well then that should at the very least get us our two sick days restored to full pay and our holidays back, at full not half pay.

The Holidays really irk me. Just for this alone we should rid ourselves of Jim Little by whatever means neccesary. Jim pushed through even recognizing five holidays, and left in conflicting language that in effect eliminated the remaining five paid holidays.

A paid holiday is a day off with pay. In other words we get eight hours of pay in addition to the hours worked. However Jim Little really eliminated all the holidays because we no longer get the additional eight hours of pay for the holiday if we work. What we now get, if we work the holiday, is half pay,due to Jim Littles "job saving"layoffs. If we are "entitled to eight hours pay with the day off but only get time and a half for working, then we in reality only get 4 hours pay for eight hours of work.

Thanks again Jim, Great job. No other unionized mechanics in the industry will be working Labor Day, Thankgiving and Christmas for 4 hours of pay. What an "Industry Leader"! Where will Jim be on those days? We will have to try and call the office. I''ll bet he is not there, but instead home or out spending his $140K that we have so graciuosly provided despite the pay cuts and other industry leading concessions that he put in place for us.

 

[DFWCC]

----------------
On 7/19/2003 10:15:25 AM Buck wrote:

AA forgave pilot union debt as part of concessions

By Bloomberg, AP and Staff Reports

7/19/2003

American Airlines forgave a $26 million debt owed by its pilots union over a 1999 work stoppage as part of talks in April to secure $1.8 billion in annual labor savings from its employees.

The action was disclosed by American in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission and confirmed by the Allied Pilots Association.

The $26 million was the unpaid portion of a $45.5 million fine imposed on the union by a federal judge who found that the pilots ignored his order to end an 11-day job action. The work stoppage forced American to cancel 6,600 flights in February 1999, costing the company $250 million and snarling air traffic nationwide.

"It was part of the overall negotiating process," said Gregg Overman, spokesman for the pilots'' union.

The $26 million wasn''t counted in $660 million in wage, job and benefit cuts pilots provided in the April agreement with the carrier, he said.

American would not comment on the action "beyond the fact that it was part of our new labor agreement with the APA," said spokesman Al Becker.

American negotiated the pilot concessions along with $620 million in savings from mechanics and other ground workers, $340 million from flight attendants and $180 million from management and nonunion workers.

The savings helped American avert a bankruptcy filing.



----------------​

I thought it was $47,000,000. Did they already pay $21mil?

 

[AA80Driver]

----------------
On 7/19/2003 5:22:04 PM Bob Owens wrote:


$26 million?

Well then that should at the very least get us our two sick days restored to full pay and our holidays back, at full not half pay.

The Holidays really irk me. Just for this alone we should rid ourselves of Jim Little by whatever means neccesary. Jim pushed through even recognizing five holidays, and left in conflicting language that in effect eliminated the remaining five paid holidays.

A paid holiday is a day off with pay. In other words we get eight hours of pay in addition to the hours worked. However Jim Little really eliminated all the holidays because we no longer get the additional eight hours of pay for the holiday if we work. What we now get, if we work the holiday, is half pay,due to Jim Littles "job saving"layoffs. If we are "entitled to eight hours pay with the day off but only get time and a half for working, then we  in reality only get 4 hours pay for eight hours of work.

Thanks again Jim, Great job. No other unionized mechanics in the industry will be working Labor Day, Thankgiving and Christmas for 4 hours of pay. What an "Industry Leader"! Where will Jim be on those days? We will have to try and call the office. I''ll bet he is not there, but instead home or out spending his $140K that we have so graciuosly provided despite the pay cuts and other industry leading concessions that he put in place for us.


----------------​

How is your post is related to the thread topic?

 

[AA80Driver]

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On 7/20/2003 10:24:07 AM DFWCC wrote:

I thought it was $47,000,000. Did they already pay $21mil?

----------------​

Yes.

 

[AAviator]

Bob Owens, It''s all about you...........

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 7/20/2003 3:23:57 PM AAviator wrote:




Bob Owens, It''s all about you...........

----------------
​

And what are you about?

 

[kimmyg]

It is related to this thread because it shows once again
the privilege pilots are awarded in this industry. It
also shows why the pilots voted so heavily in favor of this
contract. You wanted to save your retirement which is
way better than anyone elses on the property and you wanted
to get out of that debt. Maybe the individual pilots
did not know about the extra perk but I''ll bet the
presidents did. Pilots are what are bleeding our airlines
anyway with their primadonna attitudes.

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 7/20/2003 1047 AM AA80Driver wrote:

----------------
How is your post is related to the thread topic?

----------------

The person who started the thread would likely see the nexus.

During our "concession bargaining" we proposed some non-monetary changes to the contract. We were told that there would be NO give and take. We were to give the company everything that they asked for, period. That the number had to be met and that there would be no concessions from the company. And that all the other workgroups faced the same terms.Yet you guys mnanaged to get back $26 million off your "number".​

 

[AA80Driver]

----------------
On 7/20/2003 5:17:30 PM kimmyg wrote:

It is related to this thread because it shows once again
the privilege pilots are awarded in this industry. It
also shows why the pilots voted so heavily in favor of this
contract. You wanted to save your retirement which is
way better than anyone elses on the property and you wanted
to get out of that debt. Maybe the individual pilots
did not know about the extra perk but I'll bet the
presidents did. Pilots are what are bleeding our airlines
anyway with their primadonna attitudes.

----------------

 

[FWAAA]

----------------
On 7/20/2003 5:17:30 PM kimmyg wrote:

It is related to this thread because it shows once again
the privilege pilots are awarded in this industry. It
also shows why the pilots voted so heavily in favor of this
contract. You wanted to save your retirement which is
way better than anyone elses on the property and you wanted
to get out of that debt. Maybe the individual pilots
did not know about the extra perk but I''ll bet the
presidents did. Pilots are what are bleeding our airlines
anyway with their primadonna attitudes.

----------------​

The $26 million is about $2,000 per active APA member. It''s less than $3,000 per non-furloughed active AA pilot. Since most pilots gave up more than $3,000 per month in concessions, AA''s forgiveness of the debt is not the end all that you make it out to be.

If your work group had staged an illegal sickout, and as a result, your union owed AA about $2,000 per member, you''d be happy to see it forgiven. Why the animosity toward the pilots?

 

[Mach85ER]

kimmyg,

I''ll keep this short since I''m sure the MENSA may be calling on the telephone any minute.


As mentioned, the fine remaining was about $2000 per active pilot. With the paycuts, I will be down $80,000 per year. In my case the trade off is like paying $8 million dollars just to get out of a $200,000 mortgage.

Makes sense doesn''t it?

By the way, after 13 years at AA flying 130 million dollar airplanes with over a billion dollars of liability, I make what a firefighter can make at a large metro dept, and what a large construction crane operator can make,( saw that tidbit on the History channel ). I also make 1/2 to a 1/3 of what many harbor pilots make.

Cheers,
You only get what you negotiate.