AA Pilot Arrested

Garfield1966

Veteran
Apr 7, 2003
4,051
0
Texas
I think he will be treated fairly and keep his job at AA. AA has a program to help people with problems and he seems to be receptive to assistance. I hope he gets through all of this ok, he got through the first step which was probably the hardest so hopefully he will continue on and be back flying soon.


What happens if he fakes his way through rehab? What happens if he gets through rehab and in a few years has a rough day at work, gets to his hotel and there are a few mini’s in the fridge. Maybe he falls off the wagon. Are you willing to have your spouse/partner/child/parent ... on board one of his flights? I know I sure as heck don’t.

Every program I have watched, every article I have read refers to alcoholics as "recovering" alcoholics. By definition, he will never be cured, he will always be ‘recovering’. From what I remember reading, the recidivism rate is high enough IMO to warrant not having him return to active duty. Can you imagine what the fall out would be if there were an incident where he was involved? Whether or not he had anything to do with it or not would be a moot issue.

Bottom line is that he is an alcoholic. I do not want him anywhere near a plane that I or anyone I know is on.
 

Wretched Wrench

Veteran
Apr 21, 2003
1,626
12
What happens if he fakes his way through rehab? What happens if he gets through rehab and in a few years has a rough day at work, gets to his hotel and there are a few mini’s in the fridge. Maybe he falls off the wagon. Are you willing to have your spouse/partner/child/parent ... on board one of his flights? I know I sure as heck don’t.

Every program I have watched, every article I have read refers to alcoholics as "recovering" alcoholics. By definition, he will never be cured, he will always be ‘recovering’. From what I remember reading, the recidivism rate is high enough IMO to warrant not having him return to active duty. Can you imagine what the fall out would be if there were an incident where he was involved? Whether or not he had anything to do with it or not would be a moot issue.

Bottom line is that he is an alcoholic. I do not want him anywhere near a plane that I or anyone I know is on.

I agree with you. At least, to a point. That point, as I posted earlier, is that he be tested often.

Very often.

Sometimes a drunken driver will be sentenced to have his car equipped with a breath alcohol analyzer to prevent him from driving if he falls off the wagon.
 

keezy44

Newbie
Aug 15, 2004
12
0
What happens if he fakes his way through rehab? What happens if he gets through rehab and in a few years has a rough day at work, gets to his hotel and there are a few mini’s in the fridge. Maybe he falls off the wagon. Are you willing to have your spouse/partner/child/parent ... on board one of his flights? I know I sure as heck don’t.

Every program I have watched, every article I have read refers to alcoholics as "recovering" alcoholics. By definition, he will never be cured, he will always be ‘recovering’. From what I remember reading, the recidivism rate is high enough IMO to warrant not having him return to active duty. Can you imagine what the fall out would be if there were an incident where he was involved? Whether or not he had anything to do with it or not would be a moot issue.

Bottom line is that he is an alcoholic. I do not want him anywhere near a plane that I or anyone I know is on.


What happens if he fakes his way through rehab? What happens if he gets through rehab and in a few years has a rough day at work, gets to his hotel and there are a few mini’s in the fridge. Maybe he falls off the wagon. Are you willing to have your spouse/partner/child/parent ... on board one of his flights? I know I sure as heck don’t.

Every program I have watched, every article I have read refers to alcoholics as "recovering" alcoholics. By definition, he will never be cured, he will always be ‘recovering’. From what I remember reading, the recidivism rate is high enough IMO to warrant not having him return to active duty. Can you imagine what the fall out would be if there were an incident where he was involved? Whether or not he had anything to do with it or not would be a moot issue.

Bottom line is that he is an alcoholic. I do not want him anywhere near a plane that I or anyone I know is on.
 

keezy44

Newbie
Aug 15, 2004
12
0
This cat guy really won't let go will he? Hope he never has any problems he needs help with. PPRUNE has a first post explaining what another pilot did to redeem himself after having problems. Maybe he should read that before he goes back to condemming the poor guy. I had a neighbor who had a situation like that and AA backed him all the way and he retired at 60. I don't like people that won't give a guy a chance to fix what is not right and continue with their life.
 

Garfield1966

Veteran
Apr 7, 2003
4,051
0
Texas
He is more than welcome to continue with his life. I hope that he receives the help that he needs. I am not willing to play Russian roulette with my life. If you want to fly on his a/c when/if he returns to active duty, knock your self out.

There are consequences for ones actions. At the time of his arrest, he had a BAC of .13. What part of this are you not clear on? Are you aware of what could have happened? What if Mr. Yates had had managed to pass through security and got onboard. What if his co-pilot decided to let it slide and cover his back (after all, he is a pilot and can fly by him self.). What if his co-pilot had a heart attack and died? Who flies the plane if the flight is less than 8 hours? Hmmm. Now we are in a bit of a pickle aren’t we? Never happens? I seem to recall a few months ago a pilot had a heart attack and died mid flight. Yes it’s a rare occurrence but it can and does happen. Would you want Mr. Yates flying your plane then? I sure as hell know I don’t. He placed about 200 lives at risk because of bad judgment. And that is what pisses me off. I might have been on that plane and he made a decision on my life with out my permission or knowledge. Over 200 people did not have a say. Fortunately he was caught before any damage occurred.

In most situations people get a second chance or a third. A cashier can screw up and get a second chance. A mechanic can screw up and get a second chance. A investment counselor can screw up and get a second chance. If a doctor screws up and someone dies, are you going to give him/her a second chance on you? The difference is life and death. If their actions do not have the potential to harm a person, give them all the chances you want. If their actions can kill someone, that’s where things change.

The only way I would even consider allowing him to fly again is that EVERY time his gets on a plane he is tested by an independent official in the presence of a witness. If he even comes back with a .001 his ass is walking home.
 

keezy44

Newbie
Aug 15, 2004
12
0
He is more than welcome to continue with his life. I hope that he receives the help that he needs. I am not willing to play Russian roulette with my life. If you want to fly on his a/c when/if he returns to active duty, knock your self out.

There are consequences for ones actions. At the time of his arrest, he had a BAC of .13. What part of this are you not clear on? Are you aware of what could have happened? What if Mr. Yates had had managed to pass through security and got onboard. What if his co-pilot decided to let it slide and cover his back (after all, he is a pilot and can fly by him self.). What if his co-pilot had a heart attack and died? Who flies the plane if the flight is less than 8 hours? Hmmm. Now we are in a bit of a pickle aren’t we? Never happens? I seem to recall a few months ago a pilot had a heart attack and died mid flight. Yes it’s a rare occurrence but it can and does happen. Would you want Mr. Yates flying your plane then? I sure as hell know I don’t. He placed about 200 lives at risk because of bad judgment. And that is what pisses me off. I might have been on that plane and he made a decision on my life with out my permission or knowledge. Over 200 people did not have a say. Fortunately he was caught before any damage occurred.

In most situations people get a second chance or a third. A cashier can screw up and get a second chance. A mechanic can screw up and get a second chance. A investment counselor can screw up and get a second chance. If a doctor screws up and someone dies, are you going to give him/her a second chance on you? The difference is life and death. If their actions do not have the potential to harm a person, give them all the chances you want. If their actions can kill someone, that’s where things change.

The only way I would even consider allowing him to fly again is that EVERY time his gets on a plane he is tested by an independent official in the presence of a witness. If he even comes back with a .001 his ass is walking home.
 

nbmcg01

Veteran
Sep 6, 2004
1,344
143
He is more than welcome to continue with his life. I hope that he receives the help that he needs. I am not willing to play Russian roulette with my life. If you want to fly on his a/c when/if he returns to active duty, knock your self out.

There are consequences for ones actions. At the time of his arrest, he had a BAC of .13. What part of this are you not clear on? Are you aware of what could have happened? What if Mr. Yates had had managed to pass through security and got onboard. What if his co-pilot decided to let it slide and cover his back (after all, he is a pilot and can fly by him self.). What if his co-pilot had a heart attack and died? Who flies the plane if the flight is less than 8 hours? Hmmm. Now we are in a bit of a pickle aren’t we? Never happens? I seem to recall a few months ago a pilot had a heart attack and died mid flight. Yes it’s a rare occurrence but it can and does happen. Would you want Mr. Yates flying your plane then? I sure as hell know I don’t. He placed about 200 lives at risk because of bad judgment. And that is what pisses me off. I might have been on that plane and he made a decision on my life with out my permission or knowledge. Over 200 people did not have a say. Fortunately he was caught before any damage occurred.

In most situations people get a second chance or a third. A cashier can screw up and get a second chance. A mechanic can screw up and get a second chance. A investment counselor can screw up and get a second chance. If a doctor screws up and someone dies, are you going to give him/her a second chance on you? The difference is life and death. If their actions do not have the potential to harm a person, give them all the chances you want. If their actions can kill someone, that’s where things change.

The only way I would even consider allowing him to fly again is that EVERY time his gets on a plane he is tested by an independent official in the presence of a witness. If he even comes back with a .001 his ass is walking home.


Good thing you didn't fly in the "old days" before random testing.
 

nbmcg01

Veteran
Sep 6, 2004
1,344
143
And your point is ....?


No real point other than drinking on layovers and flying have been going on since the Wright Brothers took their first flight. There are safe guards in place now that hopefully will keep this pilot on the straight and narrow.
 

Garfield1966

Veteran
Apr 7, 2003
4,051
0
Texas
No real point other than drinking on layovers and flying have been going on since the Wright Brothers took their first flight. There are safe guards in place now that hopefully will keep this pilot on the straight and narrow.


OK, I was not sure if you were trying to justify his actions.
 

Wretched Wrench

Veteran
Apr 21, 2003
1,626
12
There are safe guards in place now that hopefully will keep this pilot on the straight and narrow.

The safeguards in place now did not keep him on the straight and narrow. I'm with Garfield in that he should be tested when he shows up at the airport.

The stakes for the airline, passengers and other employees are too high.
 

Mach85ER

Veteran
Jan 13, 2003
1,089
413
Garfield,

While I appreciate your concern and disdain for any pilot flying under the influence, I would politely point out to you that AA does not give their International reserve pilots the same standards of rest prior to duty as required by law for domestic sequences. This effects the 767I crews the most since they are ripe for early am flights as well as all night flights.

It has been found in studies that over 20 hours without adequate sleep is equal to a .10 Blood Alcohol level. Fatigue can be as insidous and a threat to safety as alcohol.
 

Wretched Wrench

Veteran
Apr 21, 2003
1,626
12
It has been found in studies that over 20 hours without adequate sleep is equal to a .10 Blood Alcohol level. Fatigue can be as insidous and a threat to safety as alcohol.

Yes. And it should be addressed as such. Unfortunately, it can cost the company money.

The combination of inadequate sleep and alcohol(or drugs) is a sybiotic relationhip, wherein the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. In addition, in many cases, drinking to excess also involves staying up too late.

Even legal drugs can affect performance if fatigue enters into the equation. Benedryl, for example.