Aa's Fortress Is Being Attacked...

MAH4546

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
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Look's like MIA is the next airport for the LCCs. Right now, all there is is airTran's four daily Atlanta flights.

However ATA will be announcing a return to MIA next week (3x daily MIA-MDW with Southwest codeshare!), words is jetBlue will be announcing MIA, most likely, next month (BOS, JFK, and probably IAD and possibly LGB), and rumour is Independence Air is also finalizing plans for MIA service this winter. With FLL packed to the gills, the LCCs have no choice but to come to MIA.

In my opinion, the effect on AA will be minimal, and the real "loser" (I use the term lightly, because even they won't lose that much) will be FLL. The new carriers will definitley stimulate demand, and what they will steal from AA is bargain hunters that AA doesn't make money on in the first place, not business travelers and, more importantly, international connecting passengers. We will have a situation were AA will lower fares to protect market share, new LCCs will stimulate demand and create more market, and AA's true profit source from flights like MIA-JFK, the international connections and business contracts, will stick with AA and continue to generate that revenue. Or at least that's what I feel.

Though I really, really hope AA decides to launch MIA-MDW in some sort of retaliation. I know they didn't launch it last time ATA flew to Miami, but they have been more agressive in Miami latley.

It happens at an interesting time. For years, full-fare carriers such as Delta and United, have ran a plethora of point-to-point routes from Miami. However, as of late, those point to point route have dwindled heavily, and there are very few left, and AA finally has more than 50% market share, and growing, out of MIA. They are experiecing not only record traffic at MIA, but record revenues and record local boardings. AA definitley won't be pleased at the potential new LCC service, but I think they may take a more conservative approach towards them then they have in the past.
 
I don't think AA really cares. They may be growing, albeit slowly, in MIA, but they are doing it with less people, filthy aircraft, and a TSA group as well as MDAA who both hate AA with a vengence. You have apathetic management, lost in the haze Hazy letting his underlings run wild, infighting over who gets delays and who steals equipment from whom and you think AA has time to devote to the competition?

MIA doesn't have as much room for LCCs as one might think and even if the LCCs do put in their handful of flights each on a daily basis, it isn't going to affect AA enough to even raise a brow. The airport is constantly under construction creating more bad P.R. for every carrier that flies there - and AA's business travelers and contracts aren't what they used to be. The revenue coming in is barely covering the operation and it is evident in the services and equipment AA has the nerve to put forth to the traveling public. I haven't stepped on an AA plane out of MIA in months that was clean and didn't proudly feature duct tape somewhere!

Couple all that with the fact that AA oversells the snot out of every flight and rarely doesn't pay out the nose and regularly invols passengers hell I say let the LCCs come, who cares, least of all AA.
 
Wow Wing, we oughta just shut the whole thing down then.

God we suck!

You sure do 'know' alot for someone that's not employed by AA.
 
AA sucks in MIA because it's ignored by corporate. Employees are only as good as the tools and incentives they are provided to do a given job.

...and you seem to offer very little constructively for one who does.
 
I wouldn't say it is ignored by corporate. Since being hubbed, MIA and SJU have been run autonomously from the rest of the domestic system. And that is not and has not been Hazy, Lebright, or Torno's doing. There are some good reasons for having that autonomy, and there are some downsides as well. But the one thing that is for certain is that the division is quite profitable, and I don't know how much of that edge would be lost if they weren't doing things their own way most of the time...
 
Former ModerAAtor said:
I don't know how much of that edge would be lost if they weren't doing things their own way most of the time...
[post="281777"][/post]​


MIA can go pound sand.

MIA routinely blows the sortation to upline stations,(Eagles and Escorts routinely not in the offload message) but god forbid you don't send perfectly sorted aircraft to them, they love to immediately send nastygrams via telex complaining about how "LGA didnt have the escorts in the DRH..."

MIA has no accountability, they do whatever they want to everyone, employee and passenger alike.

They need to get a clue down there, quick.
 
LGA Fleet Service said:
MIA has no accountability, they do whatever they want to everyone, employee and passenger alike.
[post="281819"][/post]​

I've heard the same thing said about MIA, DFW, and several other stations over the past 17 years. I agree that accountability is hit or miss in some places, but I don't think that a blanket statement like that is entirely accurate. They're one of the few stations where I see people fired at -all- levels of management. The fact that MIA has gone thru three ramp MD's in the past 5 years is just one example which says to me that someone is being held accountable.
 
MAH4546 said:
In my opinion, the effect on AA will be minimal, and the real "loser" (I use the term lightly, because even they won't lose that much) will be FLL. The new carriers will definitley stimulate demand, and what they will steal from AA is bargain hunters that AA doesn't make money on in the first place, not business travelers and, more importantly, international connecting passengers. We will have a situation were AA will lower fares to protect market share, new LCCs will stimulate demand and create more market, and AA's true profit source from flights like MIA-JFK, the international connections and business contracts, will stick with AA and continue to generate that revenue. Or at least that's what I feel.

It happens at an interesting time. For years, full-fare carriers such as Delta and United, have ran a plethora of point-to-point routes from Miami. However, as of late, those point to point route have dwindled heavily, and there are very few left, and AA finally has more than 50% market share, and growing, out of MIA. They are experiecing not only record traffic at MIA, but record revenues and record local boardings. AA definitley won't be pleased at the potential new LCC service, but I think they may take a more conservative approach towards them then they have in the past.
[post="281705"][/post]​

I'm afraid you are seriously out of touch w/ the reality of the airline business. To think AA won't feel the brunt of LCCs at MIA is delusional. Yes, AA carries alot of int'l connecting traffic but they also have a large local market as well - one which existed long before FLL grew to prominence. If you recall, AA did their own version of Simplifares after DL did it in Cincinnati but before it went systemwide. AA was trying to keep LCCs from being attracted to MIA but the problems at FLL plus the size of the local market at MIA are reasons in and of themselves for LCCs to expand at MIA. You might also recall that AA's facility costs at MIA and JFK will be near $20 per passenger once those two new terminals are opened. AA cannot make money with LCC fares while paying $20 per passenger just to keep the building open. AA may have well funded pensions but it has committed to the biggest facilities expansion plan in the industry which will cost billions of dollars over the next few decades. No one is ready to nail anything into AA's coffin but LCC fares and high facility costs just don't mix. Keep in mind also that CO and DL are aggressively expanding their presence into Latin America, they compete very effectively for connecting traffic, and their costs will be much lower than AA. Other airlines are expanding into central and northern Latin America from FLL which means AA must match their fares from MIA. MIA is not the cash cow it once was although AA does have no threat on the immediate horizon for the local deep South America markets from MIA.

Also, Delta has not flown a point to point route from MIA for years and UA hasn't since they closed their hub down there a couple years ago; note that it was a hub and not just a collection of point to point flights.
 
WorldTraveler said:
Also, Delta has not flown a point to point route from MIA for years and UA hasn't since they closed their hub down there a couple years ago; note that it was a hub and not just a collection of point to point flights.
[post="281895"][/post]​

I know I'm being picky, but DL Connection does still have one (possibly two) point to point routes from MIA.

DL Connection flies MIA-TLH which is definitely a point to point route. DL Connection also flies MIA-MCO which might be point to point depending on what you consider DL's operation at MCO to be (hub, focus city??).
 
WorldTraveler said:
...
You might also recall that AA's facility costs at MIA and JFK will be near $20 per passenger once those two new terminals are opened.  AA cannot make money with LCC fares while paying $20 per passenger just to keep the building open.  AA may have well funded pensions but it has committed to the biggest facilities expansion plan in the industry which will cost billions of dollars over the next few decades. 
...
[post="281895"][/post]​

For MIA, if I recall correctly, I believe there were lawsuits over who was going to pay for the new terminal. Because AA was going to be the only carrier in the new terminal, the other airlines didn't want to pay for it, but I think it came down to all carriers would be paying for it.

Or something like that.

http://dms.dot.gov/general/orders/19971qtr...20terminal'
 
Its late but I read the thread it is quite funny. MIA truly is the worst station I have ever worked in. The construction here is at a stand still because they are so overbudget no one is willing to pay for any thimg anymore. So now we have a half finished terminal.

Let the LCCs come I doubt they can do it any better than AA. Although MDAD and Customes all seem to have it out for AA and anyone that works for AA. It is funny though if it were not for AA half the fools from MDAD and Customs would be out of a job yet they treat us like we are the enemy.

AA has concourses A B C D and E
FGH are for the internationals and the few UAL NWA and DAL flights that are left here in MIA and there are not many.

So let the LCCs come and fight for gate space and fight the ramp closures that occur everyday because of weather. Then they will do what I do ... Fly out of FLL it is so much more pleasant. Even on Jet Blue :p
 
LGA Fleet Service said:
MIA can go pound sand.

MIA routinely blows the sortation to upline stations,(Eagles and Escorts routinely not in the offload message) but god forbid you don't send perfectly sorted aircraft to them, they love to immediately send nastygrams via telex complaining about how "LGA didnt have the escorts in the DRH..."

MIA has no accountability, they do whatever they want to everyone, employee and passenger alike.

They need to get a clue down there, quick.
[post="281819"][/post]​
I'm a dfw fsc. I started in mia and used to get the worst sortations from dfw, 250 bms in the front belly of 757's. Word was that's the mothership, they can do that. No response from qc's. Now i'm in dfw. Sortations are bad from mia i'll admit. But i think its the heavy loads on their planes why it's notable here in dfw. I work 7 turns a day on my gate. Everyday
2 out of my 7 have no breakdowns. It doesn't matter if it's american, eagle, or subcontracted upline station. All their sortations suck. Until American addresses sortation tons of bags will be missed. LGA sends flights without breakdowns too!!!
 
Thanks for this post.

MIA is horribly short-staffed and has been since before 9/11.

There is a manager from the bagroom that they still call "El Nino". He cut the manning and they never recovered in the bagroom.

The bagroom has more to answer for than line-cargo and/or transfer-support.

MIA has definite problems, it's the size and weight of the freakin' bags! MIA doesn't generally have the manning for a proper sortation.

Those bags are pretty freaking heavy, as you know.

Coop

now F/A SLT, former MIA ramp

beatupxaa said:
I'm a dfw fsc. I started in mia and used to get the worst sortations from dfw, 250 bms in the front belly of 757's. Word was that's the mothership, they can do that. No response from qc's. Now i'm in dfw. Sortations are bad from mia i'll admit. But i think its the heavy loads on their planes why it's notable here in dfw. I work 7 turns a day on my gate. Everyday
2 out of my 7 have no breakdowns. It doesn't matter if it's american, eagle, or subcontracted upline station. All their sortations suck. Until American addresses sortation tons of bags will be missed. LGA sends flights without breakdowns too!!!
[post="282546"][/post]​
 
flydcoop said:
Thanks for this post.

MIA is horribly short-staffed and has been since before 9/11.

There is a manager from the bagroom that they still call "El Nino". He cut the manning and they never recovered in the bagroom.

The bagroom has more to answer for than line-cargo and/or transfer-support.

MIA has definite problems, it's the size and weight of the freakin' bags! MIA doesn't generally have the manning for a proper sortation.

Those bags are pretty freaking heavy, as you know.

Coop

now F/A SLT, former MIA ramp
[post="282772"][/post]​
It has also has always been short on equipment. Dallas has several boneyards for carts that are needed. Miami has no boneyard because there are no carts. Take a look outside your window in dec. You'll see guys delivering bags on dollies. Look over at the bagroom and you'll see double dollies with overflow bags piled 10ft high shrink wrapped to protect them.It was always short on equipment for the 10ys I was there.
 
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