AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[OhReally]

There are many, many petitions going around the one I see most is the recall of Ms. Austin... the other one is the recall of Mr. Flores. Dose anyone even believe they will find someone better to represent them? Who is willing to stand up to the challange and get the job done that we want. I for one don't want it. Who wants to take their place? Does anyone know?

That's just it. All they want to do is stir up the people who don't have the facts, have an axe to grind, or just like spreading "juicy" gossip. Could it be that someone who keeps running for election and losing, or thinks they'd get a position of authority in another union, and has nothing positive to say, might be behind this?

In unsettled times like these, people like that rise to the top... like swamp gas.

 

[OhReally]

It is PAINFULLY clear that you have some sort of relationship with our JNC, have stockholm syndrome, or are completely dismissive of the group at large. Don't throw out blanket statements that reserves who came to the meeting "care only about reserve and nothing else." In fact, the ones who showed up, I dare say are keenly aware to the fact that EVERY section matters to the group, especially SCOPE which wasn't even mentioned.

You're right, it's not "the 90's" anymore... we are living in a 2010 world with 2010 prices and a 2010 inflation rate and 2010 bills under a BANKRUPTCY contract and a PROPOSAL that is so concessionary that it's a joke. When you start having some compassion to "the rest of us" and get off that high horse, newbie we might take your position more seriously. "Please do not speak in bumper sticker?!?!?!" Grow up. Nice of you to join the day after the meeting, and REAL nice of you to refer to MF and CA as Mr. and Mrs. Indeed, they are.

Sketch, sketch, sketch.

And just WHO is throwing out blanket statements? That's all I hear from this faction. I guess complaining is much easier than thinking. Again, I smell the odor of someone's ambition, and no interest in getting a good contract. Not necessarily your ambition either.

Look at the real world. Start with the fact that the airline did go bankrupt and all of the flight attendants didn't have to reapply for our jobs. That's what your union's contract did for you. Pay cuts were unilaterally imposed by a bankruptcy judge. And it got even more difficult after that.

It is 2010 and if you emerge from your cocoon, you'll see that wages in the rest of the U.S. have dropped to 1970's level. We're very lucky. With the job market and the economy the way it is, our union has to work uphill to make the gains they have for us.

Our elected union officials work long hours for the pay and crap from the members they get, and even that pay is grudgingly given by members.

Stockholm Syndrome? Hardly. I simply don't have your solipsistic view of the world.... the one that Baja Babe and her posse take advantage of. Lies? Start with her. That's all she does. In fact that's among a lot of things she'll do and has done for power. If you think she really gives a rat's patoot for any reserves, you're kidding yourself. Reserves are the most vulnerable and those are the ones she's courting. I've been around long enough to know her real motives. Puh-leez!

 

[OhReally]

There are many, many petitions going around the one I see most is the recall of Ms. Austin... the other one is the recall of Mr. Flores. Dose anyone even believe they will find someone better to represent them? Who is willing to stand up to the challange and get the job done that we want. I for one don't want it. Who wants to take their place? Does anyone know?

You bring up a good point. Are we supposed to just blindly accept what we hear from someone who says things like "there are lots of petitions going around" or "everybody knows" or "it's painfully clear" at face value? Or believe the amazingly cruel personal lies that are being circulated about Carol? That's rumor mongering, gossip, and slander. And it weakens the union. Perhaps there are those who have that goal in mind? I don't know of a single FA who has the knowledge, brains, and the guts to take Carol's place. Can anyone let us know who does?

 

[I Was... Now US]

I have said it before and I will say it again... if we don't have a livable RSV section then the RSV's are going to walk and you blockholders out there that think your precious 25 years of "paying your dues" will do nothing but land your butt back on RSV. Don't forget that Delta is hiring and you are a blockholder from day one and sitting a mere 6 days of RSV in a single month. I think at this point the only RSV that will vote yes are the ones receiving government assistance (yes food stamps) and only if we get a signifigant raise. And don't forget about the PHX FA's that can stop by the Pantry of Love at the council 66 office to go grocery shopping because they don't make enough to support themselves let alone a family. Insert 25 year FA back on RSV and this may be you. Think about it.
We all want a joint contract but it must work for everyone not just the self entitled that have "paid their dues".

 

[OhReally]

"All the great things are simple and may and can be expressed in a single word:freedom,justice,honor,duty,mercy,hope."Winston Churchill

Would you care to elaborate?

 

[Travelpro72]

OhReally are you telling us that you find what has been presented acceptable? Trading concession for concession is what you find acceptable? I have nothing to say personally against Mike and Carol but they are responsible for what is being presented to us. I'm sorry but what they have shown thus far is nothing short of concessionary. The reserves YELL because very few blockholders yell for or with them. We are one group of employees and though language in a few sections may benefit you we need to vote no unless sections benefit ALL. The language for blockholders, as blinded as they may be by this garbage, is concessionary just as the reserve section is. Now, Mike and Carol are there to do a job. A job that I don't think is being done very well I might add. Mike and Carol should worry as those that complain, are vocal and are fed up are doing more about it via a petition to remove them from their post. Then they will be free to walk the walk and collect trash, sling food and ring up orders via their HHD on the line. Flight attendants are fed up and are taking positive steps to take control of their union. Those on the local level should be checking themselves as well as your days may be numbered. I was told in the April meeting that "YOU are the union." DAMN STRAIGHT! ! ! ! 😉

 

[VAflyGal]

Pay attention to I Was...Now US. I know more reserves who have applied at Delta (some who have already been called for interviews) than I don't. CO is hiring in the spring, as will JetBlue and Southwest. If we don't get a good contract, period, we're out.

But I really appreciate, Oh Really, your stoic defense of the JNC. We don't take for granted the work they do, but we're sick of the work we do being taken for granted. It's crystal clear to me that you are snuggled right in with them. Good for you, and I'll give you extra points for your vocabulary. You insult our intelligence not only with your "bumper sticker" comment, but also your classic superiority complex among so many here. Bravo. I'll have my masters in just under three years and will be among those who won't regret bidding adieu to the $20K a year for working every night, holiday, weekend, et cetera, while those who overfly and say "You should be glad you even have a job" can ride that bid sheet into the sunset.

 

[flybynite]

I want my understaffing pay back.

 

[OhReally]

I believe that is the point. They feel that their interests are indeed not being represented by the negotiators. My friend say that when questions are asked that Mr. Flores gets combative over things that should only require yes, no answers. When Carol bothers to show up at meetings she always says that she does not have anything to do with this or that. The secrets that have made there way to the public have come by the way of the west. When asked about those things Mr. Flores puts on his cloaking device and says this info can't be shared with the members. I got news for you, it already has and you are making it worse by not explaining it to your members properly. If I were in your shoes I would find it hard to believe much of what comes out of their mouth.

I also think that we read in one of these threads that they can be recalled for any reason. Fair or not, that is what is in your bylaws. I would think that your MEC president would be aware of this. I think if they want to save their jobs they have so explaining to do in regards to your contract.

Don't you realize you're just passing on gossip? It's all "I heard", "I think", "my friend say". Not one fact. Here's something real. The company sees this whole made-up controversy just to unseat our negotiators at a critical time in negotiations. And you can bet they're laughing their asses off. Good luck with getting the company to take us FAs seriously.

Don't let the instigators divide and conquer us. We need a unified contract!

 

[OhReally]

Pay attention to I Was...Now US. I know more reserves who have applied at Delta (some who have already been called for interviews) than I don't. CO is hiring in the spring, as will JetBlue and Southwest. If we don't get a good contract, period, we're out.

But I really appreciate, Oh Really, your stoic defense of the JNC. We don't take for granted the work they do, but we're sick of the work we do being taken for granted. It's crystal clear to me that you are snuggled right in with them. Good for you, and I'll give you extra points for your vocabulary. You insult our intelligence not only with your "bumper sticker" comment, but also your classic superiority complex among so many here. Bravo. I'll have my masters in just under three years and will be among those who won't regret bidding adieu to the $20K a year for working every night, holiday, weekend, et cetera, while those who overfly and say "You should be glad you even have a job" can ride that bid sheet into the sunset.

Actually, the point was about the difficulty in negotiating a good contract in this economic climate. Whether you like it or not, that is a reality the negotiating team is dealing with. Our support will be critical to getting a decent contract.

Snuggled right in with the people we elected to office? You bet I am. Better than snuggling in with people who can't get elected and would say anything about anyone to get even. Am I supporting my union? Absolutely. Do I want the company to regard us as a bunch of morons who attack each other when things get stressful? No. Do I want the company to take us seriously and get a unified contract? You bet.

By using the term "bumper stickerese" I'm referring to people who utter disjointed quotes and rants and think that passes for a logical conversation.

If you're sick of the work that you do being taken for granted, don't look at your union. Look at yourself and how the company is perceiving us. I'm embarrassed by the fact that people believe the lies and smears that are being circulated, along with TOTAL misinterpretation of the contract language by people who claim to know the contract.

Good luck with that master's degree. Right now, jobs requiring a master's degree are going for about $15.00 per hour, many without benefits. There are a lot of unemployed degree holders out there.

 

[NoMoreKoolAid]

What rock did someone crawl out from under? Holy crap it's so sick it's stupid. Of wait, smells like a rock from the AFA mec or a spouse of one. Drink the KoolAid - sluuuuurp. Selfish BS from a newbie.

 

[OhReally]

OhReally are you telling us that you find what has been presented acceptable? Trading concession for concession is what you find acceptable? I have nothing to say personally against Mike and Carol but they are responsible for what is being presented to us. I'm sorry but what they have shown thus far is nothing short of concessionary. The reserves YELL because very few blockholders yell for or with them. We are one group of employees and though language in a few sections may benefit you we need to vote no unless sections benefit ALL. The language for blockholders, as blinded as they may be by this garbage, is concessionary just as the reserve section is. Now, Mike and Carol are there to do a job. A job that I don't think is being done very well I might add. Mike and Carol should worry as those that complain, are vocal and are fed up are doing more about it via a petition to remove them from their post. Then they will be free to walk the walk and collect trash, sling food and ring up orders via their HHD on the line. Flight attendants are fed up and are taking positive steps to take control of their union. Those on the local level should be checking themselves as well as your days may be numbered. I was told in the April meeting that "YOU are the union." DAMN STRAIGHT! ! ! ! 😉

Let's hear exactly what it is you find unacceptable and what you'd like to see done and how to go about doing it. Find common ground for all, including an across the board pay increase.

 

[OhReally]

I believe so and people will step up to the plate to take over.

Who? And who would like to start all over again in negotiations? Any volunteers?

 

[OhReally]

What rock did someone crawl out from under? Holy crap it's so sick it's stupid. Of wait, smells like a rock from the AFA mec or a spouse of one. Drink the KoolAid - sluuuuurp. Selfish BS from a newbie.

Yep, a newbie on this post, especially after the display at the meeting, and years of hearing lies and slander I'm sick as well. Of all of you. And really, smoking will cause wrinkles. Nice try on the snarky remark... do you have anything to really say?

 

[VAflyGal]

Put down your guns, for the love - I love my job and I am thankful for what we have gained through this culture and environment. - I don't take it for granted but it is not enough. I'm sorry.
And thanks for the well wishes with the masters. It's a real B to try to go to classes when I'm on call 19-20 days a month, paying my mortgage ALONE, with all the other bills we all have. It'll be good. My certifications and masters will serve me well in my field, which is ever growing and pays about ten times more than what you mentioned. My real issue is what faces us, here, now, and the fact that I'd like to continue my career here.
Everyone, EVERYONE, needs a plan B.