Airline Workers Should Have Known About Threats
- Thread starter atabuy
- Start date
Nothing attempted. I have never said the military travels in an "ideological lockstep". You attempt to brush a stroke implying lack of reasoned thought. Not everyone in nearly any group, especially one as huge as the military, will agree on everything. But most of us involved in this fight know the enemy and the threat.
The statement I responded to was the idiotic supposition that the President is more dangerous than terrorists. It is ludicrous.
There were 17 UN Resolutions against Iraq. Iraq had WMD. They supported terrorists including training and material support (see other thread with liberal Carter appointed judge ruling material support for Al Qaeda and the 9/11 attacks by the Iraqi government in 100+ million dollar settlement).
Jordan has just stopped an attempted terrorist attack using WMD (chemical weapons including VX (a nerve agent)). The source is currently believed to be from Iraq via Syria (you know... the WMD that Iraq didn't have. The stuff that President Bush (and Clinton, and Kerry, and most of the rest of the world) "(mis) led" us about?.
The Jordanian government estimates 20,000+ casualties would have been suffered from this attack. If you think 9/11 was bad, if this happens in a major US city it will make 9/11 look pale in comparison. This is the kind of threat Iraq posed. Despite your claims to the contrary, there has been and continues to be all kinds of evidence of the threat Iraq posed to the Region, the US, and the world.
You are so sure of this? I have spoken to Iraqi citizens. They were very hopeful of an Iraqi democracy. In fact, recent polls show 2/3 of the Iraqi population are positive on their future and the future of democracy there. Why would you not want every nation to enjoy the freedoms we have? Freedom is the natural yearning of all mankind.
Yeah - 10s of thousands of Iraqis tortured and killed annually. Women pulled off the street and raped regularly. Children, if refusing to join the Baath Youth Party (like the Nazi Youth Party) thrown in prison (we freed over 100 children in one prison - imprisoned for that reason). Athletes tortured and killed for poor performance. Terrorist training and safe haven. Whole towns wiped out using WMD (chemical weapons they didn't have). People pulled off the street and placed on electrically wired torture beds because the Baath Party official didn't like the way they looked (I have seen these beds - have you?) Yep - what a great place it was.
Very broad statement unsupported by reality. Please cite specific examples.
The fight against the spread of communism continued long after the end of the fight in Viet Nam. You are connecting two dots erroneously. The better connection to the end of Viet Nam was the slaughter of 2,000,000+ Cambodians and the complete loss of freedom by the South Vietnamese and the introduction of tyranical North Vietnamese control.
The wall in Germany went down because of the continued pressure of the West and the prosecution of the Cold War.
Not EVERYone in the military thinks that President Bush is the man - just MOST of us. Would you care to compare polling data on this? Or perhaps you would like to compare anecdotal evidence? You count up your military friends who DON'T think President Bush is the Man and I will count up those in my unit who DO think President Bush is the Man. Either way, I have no doubt about the outcome.
This is the kind of warped thinking that amazes MOST of us in the military fighting the terrorists.
The terrorists have declared war on us. They want to kill you. They want to destroy your way of life. They have maps with plots of every major US landmark, nuclear power plant, military installation, major energy pipelines, seats of power. They have tested biological weapons on animals. They seek (and claim) to possess nuclear devices. They have just been stopped in Jordan from a chemical (including nerve gas) WMD attack that would have killed 10s of thousands.
They do not want a free and democratic Iraq. Terrorists from all over the world have converged on Iraq to stop it from happening. Al Qaeda messaging has been intercepted specifically calling for an incitement of an Iraqi civil war to prevent democracy from taking hold.
This is a Global War On Terror. It is not a law enforcement issue.
A10 Pilot
***Never have so many whined so much while their lives where altered so little facing so great a threat***
A10Pilot says: "Nothing attempted. I have never said the military travels in an "ideological lockstep". "
Yet your earlier statement contained none of the qualifiers you now imply.
A10Pilot says:"There were 17 UN Resolutions against Iraq. Iraq had WMD."
The United Nations and the U.S. went to war with Korea and are currently under an armed truce. Korea has, and has attempted to distribute, WMD.
A10 Pilot says:"Jordan has just stopped an attempted terrorist attack using WMD (chemical weapons including VX (a nerve agent))."
VX is a Soviet-era nerve agent and is available from many of the former Soviet client states, including Syria itself, along with the blood agent BG. Provenance remains unproven, no matter how fervently the Bush Administration wishes otherwise.
A10 Pilot says: " Why would you not want every nation to enjoy the freedoms we have? Freedom is the natural yearning of all mankind."
Didn't say I didn't. I said they might not want it, in fact they quite obviously do not want our help getting it. Surprisingly enough not everyone in the world wants what we have.
A10Pilot says:"Yeah - 10s of thousands of Iraqis tortured and killed annually. Women pulled off the street and raped regularly."
You have no assurance they will not resume such acts the minute we leave. The fact is that such acts continue even while we are there.
A10 Pilot says:"Terrorist training and safe haven."
Where are the camps? There is no concrete evidence that there was anything more than casual contact between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
A10 Pilot says:"Whole towns wiped out using WMD (chemical weapons they didn't have)."
The last recorded occurrence pre-dates the UN WMD eradication program. The fact is that even Bush himself admits that there has been no evidence of WMDs found in Iraq.
A10Pilot says:"Very broad statement unsupported by reality. Please cite specific examples."
Examples
A10Pilot says:"***Never have so many whined so much while their lives where altered so little facing so great a threat***"
I think we see where you stand on the First Amendment Rights of the American people.
A10Pilot says"Freedom is the natural yearning of all mankind."
Security is the natural yearning of all mankind, I'm just opposed to trading Freedom to get it.
Yet your earlier statement contained none of the qualifiers you now imply.
A10Pilot says:"There were 17 UN Resolutions against Iraq. Iraq had WMD."
The United Nations and the U.S. went to war with Korea and are currently under an armed truce. Korea has, and has attempted to distribute, WMD.
A10 Pilot says:"Jordan has just stopped an attempted terrorist attack using WMD (chemical weapons including VX (a nerve agent))."
VX is a Soviet-era nerve agent and is available from many of the former Soviet client states, including Syria itself, along with the blood agent BG. Provenance remains unproven, no matter how fervently the Bush Administration wishes otherwise.
A10 Pilot says: " Why would you not want every nation to enjoy the freedoms we have? Freedom is the natural yearning of all mankind."
Didn't say I didn't. I said they might not want it, in fact they quite obviously do not want our help getting it. Surprisingly enough not everyone in the world wants what we have.
A10Pilot says:"Yeah - 10s of thousands of Iraqis tortured and killed annually. Women pulled off the street and raped regularly."
You have no assurance they will not resume such acts the minute we leave. The fact is that such acts continue even while we are there.
A10 Pilot says:"Terrorist training and safe haven."
Where are the camps? There is no concrete evidence that there was anything more than casual contact between Iraq and Al Qaeda.
A10 Pilot says:"Whole towns wiped out using WMD (chemical weapons they didn't have)."
The last recorded occurrence pre-dates the UN WMD eradication program. The fact is that even Bush himself admits that there has been no evidence of WMDs found in Iraq.
A10Pilot says:"Very broad statement unsupported by reality. Please cite specific examples."
Examples
A10Pilot says:"***Never have so many whined so much while their lives where altered so little facing so great a threat***"
I think we see where you stand on the First Amendment Rights of the American people.
A10Pilot says"Freedom is the natural yearning of all mankind."
Security is the natural yearning of all mankind, I'm just opposed to trading Freedom to get it.
Uhhhhh... You need to take a logic course. How is pointing out that someone is whining a denial of their right to whine? LOL
THESE are your 'examples' of rights lost? You said nothing other than an opinion about my 'stand on First Ammendment Rights' (grossly misanalyzed without support) and another broad statement about security.
Freedom isn't free.
Cite your source that N Korea has tried to put WMD in the hands of terrorists.
I have to qualify every statement against silly generalizations and ad hominem attacks?
So sure are you? I have spoken to Iraqi citizens who DO want our help getting it. Polls show they DO want us to stay. It is the terrorists who don't want us there and don't want democracy to succeed.
Such acts continue? 10s of thousands of Iraqis are being tortured and killed? Women are yanked off the street and raped by government officials?
These are the acts of a despotic regime - not a free society. No - it would not continue if a democracy takes hold. That is what the terrorists and former Baathists don't want.
There is all kinds of evidence to the contrary. I have posted such many times - including a Carter-appointed liberal judge ruling in a 100+ million dollar 9/11 family lawsuit that the Iraqi government supplied material support to the 9/11 Al Qaeda attackers.
There is a comforting thought. They hadn't RECENTLY used WMD to wipe out entire towns.
WMD not found in Iraq is not saying it wasn't there. It was KNOWN to exist in Iraq. The whole point of the final UN Resolution was for Iraq to prove to THE WORLD that it had destroyed the KNOWN WMD. They would not and the Resolutions were enforced my military action.
A10 Pilot
***Never have so many whined so much while their lives where altered so little facing so great a threat***
A10Pilot says:"Uhhhhh... You need to take a logic course."
Argumentum Ad Hominem indeed! Also an interesting double standard. Perhaps if you took a computer course you would have realized that the underlined word "Evidence" contained in my post was a link and I in no way intended the other parts of my post to serve as evidence you apparently took it to be.
It is interesting that you complain of Ad Hominem attacks while from the beginning you have shown clearly your contempt for those who disagree with you, attacking them rather than disputing their arguments - the very model of an Ad Hominem attack. Witness your repeated characterization of those who disagree with you as whiners and your repeated statements like "If you knew anything about the Constitution" or "You need to take a logic course".
A10Pilot says:"Freedom isn't free."
Isn't that on the Halliburton corporate coat of arms? Freedom really isn't free and it's when organizations like the Bush Administration start deciding that they are the only ones allowed to define it that we really have to worry.
A10Pilot says:"Cite your source that N Korea has tried to put WMD in the hands of terrorists."
Cite your source that they haven't, since you're the one that always expects people to 'prove a negative'. Just Kidding, it's the U.S. Department of State:
It's a Link!
A10Pilot says:"I have to qualify every statement against silly generalizations and ad hominem attacks?"
When you make use of silly generalizations in an attempt to prove a point, yes.
A10Pilot says:"So sure are you? I have spoken to Iraqi citizens who DO want our help getting it. Polls show they DO want us to stay."
Yeah, you can tell by the way they have risen up against the Iraqis who are attacking them and us. The boot of Saddam has been lifted from their throats and their first action has been....to spit on their would-be liberators and cheer those who attack them. Yeah, they want us there...
A10Pilot says:"Such acts continue? 10s of thousands of Iraqis are being tortured and killed? Women are yanked off the street and raped by government officials?"
Those same Baathist officials the U.S. now wants to return to power?
Another Link!
A10Pilot says:"These are the acts of a despotic regime - not a free society. No - it would not continue if a democracy takes hold. That is what the terrorists and former Baathists don't want."
Like throwing people in prison indefinitely without charges or legal defense and refusing to even say whether a particular individual is being held or not? Hmmm......no, wait, that was us.
Apparently what the Baathists want is jobs and the U.S. is happy to give them. (See Link Above) So I guess it will continue as soon as we leave because we will have achieved no lasting change is who runs the country.
You call the Iraqis who oppose the U.S. terrorists, they call themselves patriots. When you do so please remember that the British used similar characterizations about our founding fathers.
A10Pilot says:"I have posted such many times - including a Carter-appointed liberal judge ruling in a 100+ million dollar 9/11 family lawsuit that the Iraqi government supplied material support to the 9/11 Al Qaeda attackers."
You have cited that decision ad nauseum, yet quite selectively. When questioned about that in another thread you remained mute, a fact that certainly calls into question your apparent affection for it.
A10Pilot says:"There is a comforting thought. They hadn't RECENTLY used WMD to wipe out entire towns."
Neither have we but we have also done so in the past.
You can't use what you don't have and he didn't have them because the UN inspections worked. If he had them do you think he would have hesitated to use them against us? Even if he shipped them off, as you assert, do you think we would have found absolutely no evidence of them despite nearly a year of searching? Incidentally, I heard no Republican voice calling for an invasion in 1991 when they were using those WMDs against the very Kurds we had incited to rise up against them. We were told that our mission was accomplished even as they died.
A10Pilot says:"The whole point of the final UN Resolution was for Iraq to prove to THE WORLD that it had destroyed the KNOWN WMD."
The known WMD that the UN inspectors were saying HAD BEEN DESTROYED? The same WMD that you assert were mysteriously spirited away, with your only evidence being that we can't find them but some stuff like them turned up somewhere else?
A10Pilot says:"They would not and the Resolutions were enforced my military action."
Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc. (Against the objections of the UN incidentally.) It's interesting the mixed feelings the Republicans have toward the UN - the UN is an absolute authority when they agree with us and immaterial when they don't. Unilateral action in the face of no threat is the action of a tyrant.
Argumentum Ad Hominem indeed! Also an interesting double standard. Perhaps if you took a computer course you would have realized that the underlined word "Evidence" contained in my post was a link and I in no way intended the other parts of my post to serve as evidence you apparently took it to be.
It is interesting that you complain of Ad Hominem attacks while from the beginning you have shown clearly your contempt for those who disagree with you, attacking them rather than disputing their arguments - the very model of an Ad Hominem attack. Witness your repeated characterization of those who disagree with you as whiners and your repeated statements like "If you knew anything about the Constitution" or "You need to take a logic course".
A10Pilot says:"Freedom isn't free."
Isn't that on the Halliburton corporate coat of arms? Freedom really isn't free and it's when organizations like the Bush Administration start deciding that they are the only ones allowed to define it that we really have to worry.
A10Pilot says:"Cite your source that N Korea has tried to put WMD in the hands of terrorists."
Cite your source that they haven't, since you're the one that always expects people to 'prove a negative'. Just Kidding, it's the U.S. Department of State:
It's a Link!
A10Pilot says:"I have to qualify every statement against silly generalizations and ad hominem attacks?"
When you make use of silly generalizations in an attempt to prove a point, yes.
A10Pilot says:"So sure are you? I have spoken to Iraqi citizens who DO want our help getting it. Polls show they DO want us to stay."
Yeah, you can tell by the way they have risen up against the Iraqis who are attacking them and us. The boot of Saddam has been lifted from their throats and their first action has been....to spit on their would-be liberators and cheer those who attack them. Yeah, they want us there...
A10Pilot says:"Such acts continue? 10s of thousands of Iraqis are being tortured and killed? Women are yanked off the street and raped by government officials?"
Those same Baathist officials the U.S. now wants to return to power?
Another Link!
A10Pilot says:"These are the acts of a despotic regime - not a free society. No - it would not continue if a democracy takes hold. That is what the terrorists and former Baathists don't want."
Like throwing people in prison indefinitely without charges or legal defense and refusing to even say whether a particular individual is being held or not? Hmmm......no, wait, that was us.
Apparently what the Baathists want is jobs and the U.S. is happy to give them. (See Link Above) So I guess it will continue as soon as we leave because we will have achieved no lasting change is who runs the country.
You call the Iraqis who oppose the U.S. terrorists, they call themselves patriots. When you do so please remember that the British used similar characterizations about our founding fathers.
A10Pilot says:"I have posted such many times - including a Carter-appointed liberal judge ruling in a 100+ million dollar 9/11 family lawsuit that the Iraqi government supplied material support to the 9/11 Al Qaeda attackers."
You have cited that decision ad nauseum, yet quite selectively. When questioned about that in another thread you remained mute, a fact that certainly calls into question your apparent affection for it.
A10Pilot says:"There is a comforting thought. They hadn't RECENTLY used WMD to wipe out entire towns."
Neither have we but we have also done so in the past.
You can't use what you don't have and he didn't have them because the UN inspections worked. If he had them do you think he would have hesitated to use them against us? Even if he shipped them off, as you assert, do you think we would have found absolutely no evidence of them despite nearly a year of searching? Incidentally, I heard no Republican voice calling for an invasion in 1991 when they were using those WMDs against the very Kurds we had incited to rise up against them. We were told that our mission was accomplished even as they died.
A10Pilot says:"The whole point of the final UN Resolution was for Iraq to prove to THE WORLD that it had destroyed the KNOWN WMD."
The known WMD that the UN inspectors were saying HAD BEEN DESTROYED? The same WMD that you assert were mysteriously spirited away, with your only evidence being that we can't find them but some stuff like them turned up somewhere else?
A10Pilot says:"They would not and the Resolutions were enforced my military action."
Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc. (Against the objections of the UN incidentally.) It's interesting the mixed feelings the Republicans have toward the UN - the UN is an absolute authority when they agree with us and immaterial when they don't. Unilateral action in the face of no threat is the action of a tyrant.
- Thread Starter
- #55
NWA/AMT,
WMD Link
Thank you for the link.
If we never learn from history, there is a good chance that it will be repeated.
WMD Link
Thank you for the link.
If we never learn from history, there is a good chance that it will be repeated.
