Airtran and Southwest Mechanic Seniority Bridging.

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Oct 3, 2010
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I am trying find opinions on different ways to fairly bridge the seniority lists between the two airlines. I am also interested in how other Airline mergers have proceeded.

Things to consider:

1. Southwest purchased Airtran. (Airtran sold the airline for 1.4 billion but really 3.4 billion w/ debt)
2. This is a buyout not a merger.
3. Southwest (SWA) mechanics make $12 - $15 dollars more per hour.
4. SWA Mechanics top out at 5 years not 10 years like Airtran.
5. Many Southwest mechanics spent 1-3 years on waiting lists after being hired with Southwest before finally actually starting. Airtran zero wait.
6. SWA matches 7.2 percent on 401k. Airtran 2 percent.
7. SWA has 6 more paid holidays a year than Airtran.
8. SWA job security.
9. SWA has great relationship with employees.
10 SWA insurance premiums are very inexpensive $50-60 dollars evrey pay period.

* If any of my facts are incorrect feel free to educate me.

On paper SWA mechanics have every thing to lose and Airtran mechanics everthing to gain.


Some options for bridging senority.

1. All Airtran mechanics start below all SWA mechanics with payscale determined buy years of Airtran service.
2. Blend in Airtran mechanics based on hire date.
3. Split Airtrans seniority in half then blend in SWA seniority list.
4. Bridge first Airtran Mechanics by hire date skip 2-3 SWA mechanics and insert next Airtran Mechanic on seniority list.



Congress has set guidlines under the Allegheny-Mohawk merger on how labor intergration should occur between two merger airlines. The key words it uses is "fair and equitable manner”. It does not specify any other set rules or how to determine or exactly what is fair and equitable. Which should be fair and equitable for both Airlines. This is also used for a Merger. Which technically SWA and Airtrab is not a merger.

Labor Protective Provisions and the Allegheny-Mohawk

Merger

Labor Protective Provisions (LPPs) were routinely applied by the Civil Aeronautics Board
(CAB) in the 1950s and 1960s in airline mergers. The LPPs were formalized as a set of
standards in the board’s 1972 order in the merger of Allegheny and Mohawk airlines.5 That
order granted several protections for employees adversely affected by an airline merger. The
protections included a monthly displacement allowance for employees whose compensation was
reduced, a dismissal allowance for employees who lost their job, reimbursement for relocation
expenses, and compensation for other losses suffered as a direct result of the merger. In
addition, the Allegheny-Mohawk order required that seniority systems be integrated in a “fair
and equitable manner” and provided mediation and arbitration to resolve disputes over LPPs.
The LPPs, however, required that any adverse impact had to be the result of the merger. Further,
the “fair and equitable” standard was generally regarded to have been met if the procedure
(rather than the outcome) was fair.
 
2. This is a buyout not a merger.

"Merger" is just the generic term used for putting two or more airlines (or companies in the more general sense) together to make one bigger airline (or company). It means nothing about the mechanism used to do it - acquisition, leveraged buyout, stock swap, whatever. Conversely, any of those methods can be used by one airline (or company) to acquire another without it being a merger if the acquired airline (company) is operated separately. So DL and NW merged (DL bought NW but the companies are being combined) while Republic Air Holding (parent of Republic Airlines) bought both Midwest and Frontier but no merger occurred since they operate as separate divisions of RAH.

So the federal law governing integration of employees does apply since SW/FL will be a merger.

Jim
 
It sounds like a WN WN situation B)

Speaking for myself, I would be glad to be at the bottom if my pay and benefits got better!

Someone said that LUV hasn't laid-off anyone in over 30 years. That is one heck of a record. Someone else said that SW is one of the strongest union shops in the industry. This shocked me!

Keep in mind that many of us believe that WN is just starting to grow and other 'mergers' will emerge in the coming years. Thus you'll move up in seniority :D
 
Someone said that LUV hasn't laid-off anyone in over 30 years.

To the best of my knowledge, WN hasn't furloughed anyone since they started operating in 1971.

Someone else said that SW is one of the strongest union shops in the industry.

I believe that they have a higher percentage of union represented employees of any large carrier. It's possible that some regional express-type carriers have a greater percentage since they don't have some of the job classifications that bigger airlines have (reservations, agents, rampers, etc). Whether that means WN is one of the strongest union shops is a matter of perspective, I guess. They do seem to have a sort of family atmosphere where if an employee sees something that needs doing and they know how to do it, just getting it done is more important than which groups work it is.

Jim
 
It sounds like a WN WN situation B)

Speaking for myself, I would be glad to be at the bottom if my pay and benefits got better!

:D
Feel the same way here. Airtran guys hit the JackPot. I believe that AMFA (the union representing SWA Mechs) normally dovetails based on DOH. I would imagine that there would be little impact to the SWA guys, after all Airtran only went into business in 1997, how much seniority could they have? But even if they had bought AA I'd agree to be stapled.
 
With the DL/NW deal it was straight date of hire. In most cases there has been very little overlap of the two work groups. There have been a few transfers but for the most part everyone has stayed in the same place as before the merger. It might have been different if both airlines had large groups of mechanics in the same cities or if some stations had closed. The same thing could occur at the combined WN Airtran. Do both airlines have mechanics in any cities? Unless they start lopping off positions the two may rarely meet.

As far as pay the Airtran guys should be brought into the WN scale depending on their length of service at Airtran. An AMT with five years should be topped out. Don't try to make them second class mechanics. Acts like that don't make for a happy workforce.
 
With the DL/NW deal it was straight date of hire. In most cases there has been very little overlap of the two work groups. There have been a few transfers but for the most part everyone has stayed in the same place as before the merger. It might have been different if both airlines had large groups of mechanics in the same cities or if some stations had closed. The same thing could occur at the combined WN Airtran. Do both airlines have mechanics in any cities? Unless they start lopping off positions the two may rarely meet.

As far as pay the Airtran guys should be brought into the WN scale depending on their length of service at Airtran. An AMT with five years should be topped out. Don't try to make them second class mechanics. Acts like that don't make for a happy workforce.
My guess is that they will be treated fairly, after all mechanics are becoming a rare commodity.

Original Mechanic Certificates Issued
2000 8,894
2001 8,083
2002 7,733
2003 6,064
2004 6,126
2005 5,651
2006 5,555
2007 5,980
2008 5,830
2009 6,352

Figure since an A&P is two certificates that means at the max we are talking about 3175 new A&Ps last year, thats to cover the entire commercial aviation industry, General Aviation, Business aviation, FBOs, FAA and manufacturing.

Thats not much when you consider that AA alone is losing around 500/year through attrition (Retirements, resignations, terminations and deaths).

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/2009/
 
My guess is that they will be treated fairly, after all mechanics are becoming a rare commodity.

Unless something has changed recently, the mechanics at FL and WN are represented by different unions so the seniority integration will be governed by federal law - negotiation followed by binding arbitration if necessary.

Jim
 
Unless something has changed recently, the mechanics at FL and WN are represented by different unions so the seniority integration will be governed by federal law - negotiation followed by binding arbitration if necessary.

Jim

What happens if the two groups come up with an agreement on their own? Is that allowed? Or will the
feds come in and screw things up?
 
What happens if the two groups come up with an agreement on their own? Is that allowed?
While the new law hasn't been tested in court yet, I would think that the negotiation stipulated between the two groups would allow (and maybe indicate a preference for) that. The purpose of the law is to prevent one side from dictating the outcome, not to preclude a mutually acceptable outcome.

Jim
 
Feel the same way here. Airtran guys hit the JackPot. I believe that AMFA (the union representing SWA Mechs) normally dovetails based on DOH. I would imagine that there would be little impact to the SWA guys, after all Airtran only went into business in 1997, how much seniority could they have? But even if they had bought AA I'd agree to be stapled.
Wow. Sorry, It is just wrong for those airtran employees to be at the bottom. Should be date of hire for everyone. Unfortunately, the TWU has a horrible record of stapling and throwing other merger employees under the bus {morris air, Muse air}. I'm actually surprised to hear this from you that you would feel like you hit the jackpot by being placed at the bottom of the list if your pay went up??????? Are you kidding me?

You would be first to go if that was the case and I would hope that you would push your union to fight for DOH if it were you.
 
Wow. Sorry, It is just wrong for those airtran employees to be at the bottom. Should be date of hire for everyone. Unfortunately, the TWU has a horrible record of stapling and throwing other merger employees under the bus {morris air, Muse air}. I'm actually surprised to hear this from you that you would feel like you hit the jackpot by being placed at the bottom of the list if your pay went up??????? Are you kidding me?

You would be first to go if that was the case and I would hope that you would push your union to fight for DOH if it were you.

Now that's funny!>>> "push your union to fight for DOH" At least it's a funny statement as far as the mechanics are concearned. The Teamsters will not allow any input from the mechanics, they will do what they want to do. That's why they were voted out of here so quickly. We heard the Teamsters tried to pull a fast one over on Air Tran and the mechanics saying they were sending a rep from IBT international to discuss co senority integration. Come to find out the rep from IBT international was actually a card drive union worker trying to get a card drive going to represent all mechanics at SWA after merger. You guys, this is only the beginning of how the reamsters will treat you guys throughout this merger. They will lie, and cheat to get what they want NOT WHAT THE MEMBERS WANT. They will also do all thier negotiating behing closed doors with no communications to you guys while AMFA will allow members to sit in on negotiations. Big difference in the 2 unions, you will like AMFA much much better. Oh yea-BTW- after the 2 sides negotiate some kind of integration, we, the membership will vote on weather we will accept the integration or not. The reamsters won't allow you guys to vote on it it will be what ever they try to negotiate and that's it. If you guys want more information call AMFA National and talk to some of our officers. Ask any questions you want. They may refer you to some of our locals but they will answer your calls unlike the reamsters. And yes we have already had several guys from Air Tran calling our locals for some answers. Sorry for rambling on and good luck to all, your going to need it with the teamsters representing you...
 
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Unless something has changed recently, the mechanics at FL and WN are represented by different unions so the seniority integration will be governed by federal law - negotiation followed by binding arbitration if necessary.

Jim

According to my sources the ibt has abandoned the Airtran Mechanics. They are telling the Airtran people to pretty much shut up and we (the ibt) will take care of everything. No information from the ibt at all. Pretty disgusting but no surprise. GT
 
According to my sources the ibt has abandoned the Airtran Mechanics. They are telling the Airtran people to pretty much shut up and we (the ibt) will take care of everything. No information from the ibt at all. Pretty disgusting but no surprise. GT

If that happens it'll be a shame. Unfortunately, the only real protection is what I presume the FL employees represented by the IBT get - a vote on a completed single contract, including the seniority language.

Jim
 
If that happens it'll be a shame. Unfortunately, the only real protection is what I presume the FL employees represented by the IBT get - a vote on a completed single contract, including the seniority language.

Jim

There are many scenarios that can take place. Ideally the Airtran guys dump the ibt and go AMFA before the merger. The majority of Airtran Mechanics are in Atlanta and it wouldn't take long to organize. GT