Has anyone else heard the rumor that Allentown is our next city that we are headed to? We are hearing this at BWI. I have heard rumours before some were true like BUF/ORF. Could this be as well?
Allentown PA?
- Thread starter wnbubbleboy
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Allentown''s been one of the possibilities that has been tossed around for years, but I can''t imagine WN flying BWI-ABE given how close the two are -- Allentown to Baltimore can''t be much more than 150 miles, primarily on Interstate highways. And I doubt you''d draw traffic from Philadelphia or Harrisburg to fly to BWI.
But if gates are opening up at MDW, it might work.
But if gates are opening up at MDW, it might work.
OP
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On 6/5/2003 8:00:10 PM sfb wrote:
Allentown''s been one of the possibilities that has been tossed around for years, but I can''t imagine WN flying BWI-ABE given how close the two are -- Allentown to Baltimore can''t be much more than 150 miles, primarily on Interstate highways. And I doubt you''d draw traffic from Philadelphia or Harrisburg to fly to BWI.
But if gates are opening up at MDW, it might work.
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IMHO it may be the start of a north east suttle system for us.On 6/5/2003 8:00:10 PM sfb wrote:
Allentown''s been one of the possibilities that has been tossed around for years, but I can''t imagine WN flying BWI-ABE given how close the two are -- Allentown to Baltimore can''t be much more than 150 miles, primarily on Interstate highways. And I doubt you''d draw traffic from Philadelphia or Harrisburg to fly to BWI.
But if gates are opening up at MDW, it might work.
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WNjetdoc
Veteran
Yes bubbleboy, I''ve heard the same thing....humm? The person who told me heard it from a person who heard it from someone that got it second hand from a person that was in a meeting about a meeting that was just held in Dal.
My impression was that Allentown was not on SW''s "A" list. First of all, you can''t fly it to BWI. Since SW is trying to tie all Eastern traffic to BWI that would be a SIGNIFICANT drawback. Its virtuallly impossible to get 10 flights out of Allentown without going to BWI. Don''t tell me that you could fly 2- BNA, 2-MCI, 4 - MDW, 2 -MCO. SW has not started a city with flights going into MDW since BDL. SW has eschewed adding MDW flights to ALB, BUF and ORF, why would they now start them again to ABE? Same for BNA they don''t fly to ALB, BUF and ORF why would they start flying to ABE. Based on current history PVD, MHT, BDL, RDU, ISP, ALB, BUF, ORF they start out with a great number of flights to BWI. I can''t see why SW would break the model for ABE.
My best guesses would be in South Carolina and when ISP opens up they would go to RIC.
My best guesses would be in South Carolina and when ISP opens up they would go to RIC.
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On 6/6/2003 3:03:10 PM AirplaneFan wrote:
SW has not started a city with flights going into MDW since BDL. SW has eschewed adding MDW flights to ALB, BUF and ORF, why would they now start them again to ABE? Same for BNA they don''t fly to ALB, BUF and ORF why would they start flying to ABE. Based on current history PVD, MHT, BDL, RDU, ISP, ALB, BUF, ORF they start out with a great number of flights to BWI. I can''t see why SW would break the model for ABE.
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On 6/6/2003 3:03:10 PM AirplaneFan wrote:
SW has not started a city with flights going into MDW since BDL. SW has eschewed adding MDW flights to ALB, BUF and ORF, why would they now start them again to ABE? Same for BNA they don''t fly to ALB, BUF and ORF why would they start flying to ABE. Based on current history PVD, MHT, BDL, RDU, ISP, ALB, BUF, ORF they start out with a great number of flights to BWI. I can''t see why SW would break the model for ABE.
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Of course, keep in mind that MDW has been under constant construction since 1998. They''ve been attempting to keep a minimum of 29 gates in operation during this period. I believe they have 31 in operation right now, but I could be wrong. As of next year, the project should be complete, and all 41 gates will be open. This is a marked increase over what is available now, as well as a full 46% increase over the available number prior to 1998.
Long story short, most likely there wasn''t any more room for WN to grow at MDW by any significant amount even if it wanted to. Now there will be...
OP
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- #7
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On 6/6/2003 7:31:31 AM WNjetdoc wrote:
Yes bubbleboy, I've heard the same thing....humm? The person who told me heard it from a person who heard it from someone that got it second hand from a person that was in a meeting about a meeting that was just held in Dal.
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Jetdoc, you heard too, it's sounds like your source is better than mine. I guess we'll be seeing the press release soon then.  On 6/6/2003 7:31:31 AM WNjetdoc wrote:
Yes bubbleboy, I've heard the same thing....humm? The person who told me heard it from a person who heard it from someone that got it second hand from a person that was in a meeting about a meeting that was just held in Dal.
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I just don''t think ABE will happen anytime soon ABE, along with SW Florida, are the two airports that most amusingly use press releases. ABE announce EVERYTHING to the world, even if its "ho-hum" to most of the other airports in the country.
I also believed they might burned their bridges in 1998-1999 timeframe with the WSJ when ABE was featured in a story about how it was wooing SW. Some ABE statements were a little over the top and that is not the SW way.
So I would be amazed if its ABE, my guess would be DAY which would be the 100th anniversary of the Wright brothers flight at Kitty Hawk. The Wright brothers came from Dayton.
I also believed they might burned their bridges in 1998-1999 timeframe with the WSJ when ABE was featured in a story about how it was wooing SW. Some ABE statements were a little over the top and that is not the SW way.
So I would be amazed if its ABE, my guess would be DAY which would be the 100th anniversary of the Wright brothers flight at Kitty Hawk. The Wright brothers came from Dayton.
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On 6/8/2003 10
54 AM AirplaneFan wrote:
So I would be amazed if its ABE, my guess would be DAY which would be the 100th anniversary of the Wright brothers flight at Kitty Hawk. The Wright brothers came from Dayton.
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On 6/8/2003 10
54 AM AirplaneFan wrote: So I would be amazed if its ABE, my guess would be DAY which would be the 100th anniversary of the Wright brothers flight at Kitty Hawk. The Wright brothers came from Dayton.
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What about CVG? PIT? Neither is that overcrowded anymore - and good sized populations to draw from...
wings396
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Everyone here is overlooking the "Location" of ABE. It is one of the few, if not the only city that is situated between two major Hubs. Those being EWR & PHL. People already have shown that they will drive to ABE due to it''s location and easy access. Southest has people driving from Western NJ, AVP, RDG as well as the Northern PHL suburbs for it''s Florida markets. They are also going to start LAS later this month. Service to BWI has been done in the past by PI, with moderate success. This was before US had the chance to destroy the PI route structure. On top of this the ABE area has a growing population, as well as a large corporate travel base. If ABE is not on the "A" list, it should be. You can be that US won''t put up any type of a fight to protect any of it''s smaller stations.
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On 7/12/2003 11:02:21 AM wings396 wrote:
Everyone here is overlooking the "Location" of ABE. It is one of the few, if not the only city that is situated between two major Hubs. Those being EWR & PHL. People already have shown that they will drive to ABE due to it''s location and easy access. Southest has people driving from Western NJ, AVP, RDG as well as the Northern PHL suburbs for it''s Florida markets. They are also going to start LAS later this month. Service to BWI has been done in the past by PI, with moderate success. This was before US had the chance to destroy the PI route structure. On top of this the ABE area has a growing population, as well as a large corporate travel base. If ABE is not on the "A" list, it should be. You can be that US won''t put up any type of a fight to protect any of it''s smaller stations.
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On 7/12/2003 11:02:21 AM wings396 wrote:
Everyone here is overlooking the "Location" of ABE. It is one of the few, if not the only city that is situated between two major Hubs. Those being EWR & PHL. People already have shown that they will drive to ABE due to it''s location and easy access. Southest has people driving from Western NJ, AVP, RDG as well as the Northern PHL suburbs for it''s Florida markets. They are also going to start LAS later this month. Service to BWI has been done in the past by PI, with moderate success. This was before US had the chance to destroy the PI route structure. On top of this the ABE area has a growing population, as well as a large corporate travel base. If ABE is not on the "A" list, it should be. You can be that US won''t put up any type of a fight to protect any of it''s smaller stations.
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If Southwest were to come to ABE and primarily fly to BWI, I don''t think the response would be as positive as nonstops to Orlando, Tampa, Midway, Fort Lauderdale and Nashville. If passengers would have to connect in BWI for most destinations, there would be little advantage for current ABE passengers to defect to Southwest. I''m sure the majors would match most fares.
If on the other hand Southwest started 3 daily MCO nonstops, 2 to TPA, 3 to MDW, 2 to FLL and 2 to BNA, there is a strong chance that they would attract many passengers who now fly from EWR and PHL, as well as a majority of current ABE passengers. Southeast is obviously successful, but they only fly 5 days per week to Florida and will soon fly 2 days per week to Columbus and Las Vegas. They will be the first carrier at Rickenbacker Airport, which doesn''t even offer rental cars at this point. Most Florida passengers would defect from Southeast to Southwest for a more consistent schedule and nonstop service to primary Florida airports instead of SFB and PIE.
WN doesn''t need to fly to BWI in order to justify opening ABE. In fact, opening ABE would ease the pressure at BWI caused by traffic driving down from SE PA. I could see ABE opening with MHT and PVD service (especially since FL is trying to build east coast business from both BWI and PHL), MDW (of course), CLE (taking PHL traffic from both CO and US), and a sprinkling of Florida service.
Until US decides whether PIT lives or dies, WN won''t go in. CVG doesn''t fit the pattern of using secondary, un congested airports. If I''m not mistaken, DAY has a lot of unused space from their days as a Piedmont hub. DAY would be an excellent slap at DL''s fortress hub at Cinci-tucky....
Until US decides whether PIT lives or dies, WN won''t go in. CVG doesn''t fit the pattern of using secondary, un congested airports. If I''m not mistaken, DAY has a lot of unused space from their days as a Piedmont hub. DAY would be an excellent slap at DL''s fortress hub at Cinci-tucky....
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On 7/12/2003 10:51:12 PM 7.5victim wrote:
Until US decides whether PIT lives or dies, WN won''t go in. CVG doesn''t fit the pattern of using secondary, un congested airports. If I''m not mistaken, DAY has a lot of unused space from their days as a Piedmont hub. DAY would be an excellent slap at DL''s fortress hub at Cinci-tucky....
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On 7/12/2003 10:51:12 PM 7.5victim wrote:
Until US decides whether PIT lives or dies, WN won''t go in. CVG doesn''t fit the pattern of using secondary, un congested airports. If I''m not mistaken, DAY has a lot of unused space from their days as a Piedmont hub. DAY would be an excellent slap at DL''s fortress hub at Cinci-tucky....
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WN uses secondary uncongested airports when the primary airport is congested. Can anyone say CVG is a congested airport? There are plenty of examples of WN using primary airports - DTW, LAX, PHX, LAS, etc... at this point MDW is almost certainly more congested than CVG. There''s only a need for a secondary when the primary is seriously congested, such as DCA, LGA, JFK, BOS, ATL, etc... CVG doesn''t fit that profile at all. Using DAY as an alternate is not that viable, as it is a considerable drive from all but the northernmost suburbs of Cincinnati to the DAY airport. Even from those suburbs, it is still a 40+ mile drive through fairly heavy traffic. Service to DAY may be a good decision, but not in an effort to draw traffic away from CVG
wings396
Veteran
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This further shows why ABE is an ideal secondary airport.
EWR and PHL are as congested as you can get. One cloud in the sky, and it''s ATC delays galore. ABE is right off the main highway, and most of the parking is within walking distance of the terminal.
EWR and PHL are as congested as you can get. One cloud in the sky, and it''s ATC delays galore. ABE is right off the main highway, and most of the parking is within walking distance of the terminal.
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On 7/13/2003 7:15:41 AM wings396 wrote:
This further shows why ABE is an ideal secondary airport.
EWR and PHL are as congested as you can get. One cloud in the sky, and it''s ATC delays galore. ABE is right off the main highway, and most of the parking is within walking distance of the terminal.
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ABE offers valet parking for $12 more than the $11 daily/$55 weekly rate. Even the economy lot at ABE ($7 daily/$40 weekly) is a pleasure to use. The shuttle drivers let you off right by your car. At night, they shine their headlights on your car to facilitate access to the trunk and doors. It is such as change from EWR, that the only time we''ll go there is if there''s a drastic difference in airfares. Usually, fares at ABE are the same or less.On 7/13/2003 7:15:41 AM wings396 wrote:
This further shows why ABE is an ideal secondary airport.
EWR and PHL are as congested as you can get. One cloud in the sky, and it''s ATC delays galore. ABE is right off the main highway, and most of the parking is within walking distance of the terminal.
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