ALPA, IAM, AFA, & other defined benefit pension plans to be terminated?

autofixer

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Aug 20, 2002
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Fine! Give me my money that I have accrued and in which I am 100% vested.
 
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chipmunn

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[FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]On November 23 Roy Fruendlich said, The MEC received an update from ALPA’s Economic and Financial Analysis Department on the current economic status of airline industry and of the Company. The Retirement and Insurance Committee also briefed the MEC on [STRONG]management’s meeting with the PBGC[/STRONG]. Management has requested a meeting with all US Airways labor leaders on Tuesday, November 26, to update labor on the Company’s status and to present management’s ideas on potential solutions to the current problems the Company is facing.[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Chip comments: It is my understanding that the company may seek to terminate the defined benefit pension plans for any union who does not reach a concession agreement with the company by December 3.[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Chip[/FONT]
 

Mike

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Aug 20, 2002
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[FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]Chip comments: It is my understanding that the company may seek to terminate the defined benefit pension plans for any union who does not reach a concession agreement with the company by December 3.[/FONT]

[FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3]Chip[/FONT]
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[/blockquote]
Chip, Im very confused. Why is management approaching the unions for more concessions? We are BK. Cant management go right to the judge and get whatever they want? I would think union negotiations are a moot point when Mgt. holds all the cards now.
 

Pacemaker

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Sep 3, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 11/24/2002 5:34:05 PM autofixer wrote:

Fine! Give me my money that I have accrued and in which I am 100% vested. Then I can quit instead of going out on voluntary leave and wash my hands of this place. Threats, Threats, Threats!
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[/blockquote]

Autofixer, if they terminate the pension you don't get what you're vested for (or what the PBGC determines you're due to receive) 'till your normal retirement age. You better be 59 1/2 or else have a good job lined up!
 
OP
autofixer

autofixer

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Aug 20, 2002
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Pacemaker, I wish there was some way to take the mystery out of this retirement mess. I do not have a clue how it works. I always thought that I would be at U until retirement, so I have not researched the retirement issue. The best I can tell is nobody has a good grasp on how it will all play out. Do you? I understand what happens in a Ch 7, but how about the company just terminates the plans? It just goes to show what a contract is really worth.

This is were self reliance comes in. Everyone had better provide for themselves now and in retirement.
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chipmunn

Guest
[FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]ALPA Retirement and Insurance Representatives thoroughly understand this issue. This topic has been widely discussed on the ALPA Message Board and I am by no means a retirement expert.[BR][BR]However, here is what I do know. By law the company can terminate the plan and only has to give a 60-day notice or the PBGC can distress terminate the plan today, if they desire.[BR][BR]If the plan is terminated either by the company or the PBGC, eligible employees would not receive their vested amount when they retire. Instead the employee would receive the PBGC reduced award at age 62 or the full PBGC benefit at age 65. [BR][BR]Per yesterday's ALPA code-a-phone the company has met with the PBGC and management will brief the labor leaders on this issue Tuesday.[BR][BR]The question could be, either accept productivity and pension changes to save what we have, or possibly lose our pension(s) to the PBGC and force the company to liquidate.[BR][BR]Chip [/FONT]
 

cavalier

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Aug 28, 2002
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The question could be, either accept productivity and pension changes to save what we have, or possibly lose our pension(s) to the PBGC and force the company to liquidate.

Chip


Gee, I wonder how many people who can retire right now but decided to stay, will now have a change of heart!
 

Down Range

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Nov 20, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/24/2002 5:25:55 PM chipmunn wrote:
[P][FONT face='Times' size=3 Roman" New]Chip comments: It is my understanding that the company may seek to terminate the defined benefit pension plans for any union who does not reach a concession agreement with the company by December 3.[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face='Times' size=3 Roman" New]Chip[/FONT][/P]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][BR][STRONG][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]In [EM]addition[/EM] to the further concessions in terms of productivity, and other as of yet unnamed management desires?[BR][BR]One could equate this with having a street hoodlum relieving you of your wallet with a gun in your face only in this case the 'Hoodlum' dresses up as Austin Powers for Halloween and discusses Interesting Fleet Transactions with [EM]Mister[/EM] Munn.[BR][BR]And when the pension and productivity give Backs fail to be the cure all the company had hoped for then what do we do?[BR][BR]Have the company threaten us with abrogation of contracts,again?[/FONT][/STRONG][/P]
 

mrplanes

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Sep 17, 2002
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Down Range:

This company is on the verge of shutting the doors. Find another job and quit whining. None of us have any say as to what will happen. Munn reports what he thinks he knows. Many enjoy reading his thoughts. True or untrue. Your anger towards him is not going to change what is happening here. BTW, I also enjoy all the whining and blaming I see. It gives great insight into the character of people. When we chose to work for someone rather than having our own businesses we gave control of our destinies to someone else. Whining about what has happened is about as useful as weapons inspection in Iraq.

The true character of a man is best seen in how he acts and speaks when times are tough. This is a JOB folks. Not a life. Act like adults. Take responsibility for getting out of here now and getting on with what is important. Family, health, faith and charity. We are ALL still in control. As long as we have the ability to make decisions we can end our relationship with this sinking ship if we choose. That is always an option. If you think it is not, then you have no self confidence or guts. What we are afraid of is working harder for less money. That is the bottom line.
 

CapnCockroach

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Aug 20, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 11/24/2002 10:52:09 PM chipmunn wrote:

However, here is what I do know. By law the company can terminate the plan and only has to give a 60-day notice or the PBGC can distress terminate the plan today, if they desire.

If the plan is terminated either by the company or the PBGC, eligible employees would not receive their vested amount when they retire. Instead the employee would receive the PBGC reduced award at age 62 or the full PBGC benefit at age 65.


Chip [/FONT]
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[/blockquote]

I don't know if this will make it a bit clearer. The same event happened at TWA. The only exception, was that Carl Icahn's Pichin Corporation was responsible for funding the defined benefits programs, and there reached a point at which he was legally able to terminate them. Which he did.

Once TWA went away this triggered a point at which the PBGC notified us that we could then retire from TWA and start drawing our reduced PBGC benefits. If one was over 50 years old it was worth it to get paid the reduced benefits for life. I took the PBGC up on that, and have been receiving it ever since (well before the age of 55 at that time).

In the unfortunate instance that U would liquidate, I believe you could start drawing the PBGC amount fairly soon (depending on your age). I certainly hope that doesn't happen. Best wishes to the U crew. We don't need to lose yet another US airline logo from the skies.
 

usfliboi

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Aug 20, 2002
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I highly doubt that our ceo would resort to this type of tactic being this is a labor friendly bk... Im sure something will be worked out however im certain this is not his postion.... This is my opinion, and im welcome to it.. I choose to think positive in that some sort of compromise will happen. He hasnt resorted to this type of tactic i dont think hell start here .
 

Biffeman

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Nov 25, 2002
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[FONT color=#000099]If your pension plan is in your labor contract the company cannot terminate it, they can however underfund it to the point where the PBGC will step in and take the plan over.[/FONT]
 

Down Range

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Nov 20, 2002
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[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 11/25/2002 6:52:47 AM mrplanes wrote:
[P]Down Range:[BR][BR]This company is on the verge of shutting the doors. Find another job and quit whining.[BR][BR]----------------[BR][BR][STRONG][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]That is the standard response isnt it? Find another job and shut up?[BR][BR]Thank you Dave, may I have another?[/FONT][/STRONG][/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
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