Alpa

Bigsky

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Oct 29, 2002
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With all of the US Airways pilots joining Jetblue, have there been any rumblings regarding finally getting ALPA on the property. While nothing is perfect, the benefits of being an ALPA professional are quite substantial. From what I have heard, ALPA is needed desperately at B6 both to improve the pay and poor work rules. With many pilots at Jetblue in their thirties, they could negotiate a pension plan and by the time the B6 pilots start retiring in 20 to 30 years there would be quite a nice nest egg waiting.

Consider also if Jetblue someday merged with an ALPA carrier. Instead of being stapled to the bottom of a list you would have the protection of at least retaining your current position and date of hire seniority.

All the Jetblue pilots should be quite happy with their fast growing airline. It's time for work rules and compensation that you deserve. Step up to the plate and join the ALPA professionals.

cheers

bigsky
 
Bigsky said:
With all of the US Airways pilots joining Jetblue, have there been any rumblings regarding finally getting ALPA on the property. While nothing is perfect, the benefits of being an ALPA professional are quite substantial. From what I have heard, ALPA is needed desperately at B6 both to improve the pay and poor work rules. With many pilots at Jetblue in their thirties, they could negotiate a pension plan and by the time the B6 pilots start retiring in 20 to 30 years there would be quite a nice nest egg waiting.

Consider also if Jetblue someday merged with an ALPA carrier. Instead of being stapled to the bottom of a list you would have the protection of at least retaining your current position and date of hire seniority.

All the Jetblue pilots should be quite happy with their fast growing airline. It's time for work rules and compensation that you deserve. Step up to the plate and join the ALPA professionals.

cheers

bigsky
Its my understanding that when a person is hired at a company, wages and benefits are communicated before the acceptance of the job. Therefore, if a pilot gets furloughed from .. lets say US Airways .. and applies to jetBlue, all the logistics of the position are communicated. Therefore, they accept the position as is. If the pilot felt that the pay and benefits were less then what (s)he deserves, then that pilot should look elsewhere for a job. Right? I mean, when I got hired as a FA .. I knew that its 20 or 30/hr, 1.80 per diem, all my benefits, that its non-union, and that Id be based in JFK or FLL. If I didnt think that suited my needs, or if I felt that it didnt compensate enough, I would have declined the job offer and looked elsewhere.

Why is it that the airline industry is union obsessed? If pilots feel as if they arent being compensated enough or if they have unfair work rules, then they should seek employment at another airline.

They knew what they were in for when they were hired.
 
Bigsky said:
With all of the US Airways pilots joining Jetblue, have there been any rumblings regarding finally getting ALPA on the property. While nothing is perfect, the benefits of being an ALPA professional are quite substantial. From what I have heard, ALPA is needed desperately at B6 both to improve the pay and poor work rules. With many pilots at Jetblue in their thirties, they could negotiate a pension plan and by the time the B6 pilots start retiring in 20 to 30 years there would be quite a nice nest egg waiting.

Consider also if Jetblue someday merged with an ALPA carrier. Instead of being stapled to the bottom of a list you would have the protection of at least retaining your current position and date of hire seniority.

All the Jetblue pilots should be quite happy with their fast growing airline. It's time for work rules and compensation that you deserve. Step up to the plate and join the ALPA professionals.

cheers

bigsky
So much good a union does ...

Delta Air could seek bankruptcy
03:21 PM CDT on Monday, May 10, 2004


Bloomberg News



Delta Air Lines Inc., whose pilots have balked at a 30 percent pay cut, said it may be forced to seek bankruptcy protection unless it's able to reduce costs, stem losses and raise capital.

The comment in a regulatory filing today by Atlanta-based Delta, the third-largest U.S. carrier, follows US Airways Group Inc.'s statement last week that it may need to seek bankruptcy protection again unless its unions agree to more concessions. Labor is airlines' biggest expense.

The two airlines have continued to post losses as low-fare carriers such as Southwest Airlines Co., JetBlue Airways Corp. and AirTran Holdings Inc. step up competition. Delta Chief Executive Gerald Grinstein on April 23 called a pilot pay-cut offer inadequate and said bankruptcy could "easily be avoided."

Delta is "raising the possibility of bankruptcy to help persuade their pilots to entertain financial concessions," said Standard & Poor's analyst Philip Baggaley.

The union didn't immediately respond to a call seeking a comment.

The airline's shares declined 64 cents, or 12 percent, to $4.74 in New York Stock Exchange trading at 3:41 p.m. They have fallen 60 percent this year and since April 29 have been at their lowest since at least 1980, according to Bloomberg data.

Delta said today in its filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission: "If we cannot achieve a competitive cost structure, regain sustained profitability and access the capital markets on acceptable terms, we will need to pursue alternative courses of action intended to make us viable for the long-term, including the possibility of seeking to restructure our costs under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code."

Losses Since 2000

Since 2000, Delta has posted $3.26 billion in losses mainly because competition reduced fares and revenue. Grinstein, who took over as chief executive this year after Leo Mullin resigned in November, is reviewing all of Delta's operations in an effort to help stem the losses.

The filing said Delta has "significant obligations" due next year, including $1.23 billion of debt. Delta also expects 2005 employee pension contributions of more than the $460 million paid this year and about $1 billion in aircraft financing.

Delta had $2.45 billion in cash as of the end of March, down from $2.92 billion three months earlier. It borrowed $225 million in the first quarter for regional-jet purchases and in February issued $325 million in convertible senior notes and agreed to buy 32 more of the smaller jets, valued at $780 million.

Competitors US Airways, UAL Corp.'s United Airlines and AMR Corp.'s American Airlines have reduced costs through filing for or threatening to seek bankruptcy, Delta said in the SEC filing.

Pilot Talks

The pilots are Delta's only major employee group represented by a union. The union offered to accept a 9 percent reduction and forgo a 4.5 percent increase that was due this month. The wage increase was paid, increasing annual costs by $85 million, according to the filing.

Delta was also recently required to start recalling 1,060 pilots laid off after the Sept. 11 attacks because passenger traffic exceeded the amount stipulated by an arbitrator.

Analysts and labor leaders won't be surprised by the disclosure that bankruptcy is a possibility, Baggaley said. The widening spread between the prices on Delta bonds and benchmark U.S. treasury bonds since the pilot talks stalled last year have reflected the worsening situation, he said.

US Airways, which raised the possibility of seeking bankruptcy protection a second time, in an SEC filing Friday, has been briefing employees on its new strategy and plans to seek more pay and benefit concessions in the next few months. US Airways exited bankruptcy in April 2003, helped by worker concessions.
 
bigsky,

The boys at TWA were screwed by ALPA, and ALPA isn't doing much for the "high pay" arguement at UA. NW and DAL are a couple of the last well paid groups within ALPA, and from what I understand, that may be "a-changin". jetBlue may be best off staying non-union until the industry settles down.

I am not opposed to ALPA, times are just different in the industry now.
 
The boys at TWA were screwed by ALPA, and ALPA isn't doing much for the "high pay" arguement at UA. NW and DAL are a couple of the last well paid groups within ALPA, and from what I understand, that may be "a-changin

C54capt

TWA did not merge with an ALPA carrier, which further emphisizes my point. Regarding your point about NW and DL being the only high paid ALPA carriers left, I would invite you to look at the contracts of Alaska Airlines, Continental Airlines and also realize that it is very improbable that DL and NW will sign a UA/LCC type of agreement.

BTW. ALPA does not exist to bankrupt airlines for the greedy pilots but rather offer a fair paycheck and a good quality of life for those who have spent many years getting to their position.

Consider also the daily battles that ALPA fights against cabotage, bills that would hurt pilots benefits not to mention the numerous things ALPA has done for safety over the years.


cheers

bigsky
 
Bigsky said:
BTW. ALPA does not exist to bankrupt airlines for the greedy pilots but rather offer a fair paycheck and a good quality of life for those who have spent many years getting to their position.
The jetBlue pilots dont have a fair paycheck and a good quality of life then?
 
JetBlue pilots are better off and better served by their own pilots and better off without the hypocracy of ALPA

I doubt very much if there will be any former USAirways pilots who would cast a vote for ALPA to have another chance at ruining their career with another airline
 
I doubt very much if there will be any former USAirways pilots who would cast a vote for ALPA to have another chance at ruining their career with another airline

NEWS FLASH....ALPA did ruin USAirways. I am certain that if given the chance to vote for ALPA, most former USAir pilots would.

Obviously, SOLDWHOLESALE, you have never had the priveledge of being an ALPA member.

BTW, your call sign seems to fit you rather well.

cheers

bigsky
 
SoldWholeSale said:
JetBlue pilots are better off and better served by their own pilots and better off without the hypocracy of ALPA

I doubt very much if there will be any former USAirways pilots who would cast a vote for ALPA to have another chance at ruining their career with another airline
Explain how ALPA ruined the careers of U.S. Airways pilots.
 
He can't. But I wish him luck intrying. This should be a for a laugh.
 
Bigsky said:
While nothing is perfect, the benefits of being an ALPA professional are quite substantial.
Bwahahahahaha! Oh, God, you're killing me!

Heheh. Thanks, good one. :D

Seriously, ALPA isn't a good fit for JetBlue pilots, in a number of ways. If the pilots do organize, they'll most likely go the way of WN, F9, and FL pilots with their own in house union. ALPA has had way too many friendly fire incidents to be attractive at this time. Once they clean house, then maybe. JMHO.
 
Sorry BigSky, have my ten year pin.... So far for my trouble, ALPA has handed me three quality of living cuts, three pay cuts, a furlough and now give back after give back. The fact that the USAirways MEC violated article 13 and DFR (duty of fair representation) in the process of saving themselves in the past three years will come out over time in detail. The MEC was able to sell stock options before they were open for trade, the MEC knew about the loss of the pension 45 days before it happened and sold it to buy RJ's, the MEC signed the Eagle contract for MAA at pay rates less than those at Mesa/Chataque/ and Eagle for an aircraft larger than the forementioned carriers operate. Jets-4-Jobs, good as long as you are furloughed USAir, but what about the guys at Mesa/Chataque/PSA/PDT/ALG who are getting screwed by it? How about the creation of Republic and Freedom Airlines as products of USAirways scope?

How many jobs has ALPA saved in recent memory? How many profitable ALPA carriers are there? How many ALPA airlines are hiring? Of those, how many are included in the suite by Mike Ford/Mike Haber in the RJ Defence Coalition and are pursuing DFR as well? ALPA really came though for the TWA pilots, the Eagle pilots, CCair, Mesa, and of coarse they did very well by forgiving any Continental line crossers as long as they paid a small fine and signed their dues check off forms....

Emily..... You need to get some sun in hopes of jumpstarting your thought process and thank your lucky stars for affirmitive action. Your posts show two things; ignorance and the fact that you have never been on the home depot end of furlough.

As for retirement, the 6,000 shares of stock and profit sharing on top of a really nice 401K are nothing to laugh at. Consider the nest egg that UAL and U pilots and for that matter AirCanada pilots are now looking forward to.... Uninterupted income means a lot with a stable carrier. Face it, flying airplanes isn't so very specialized anymore. Take your cape off, every profession has become specialized in the past 20 years. We aren't all that special. There is farm equipment nearly as complex as the aircraft we fly. Six figures, half the month off and a changing view are better than most can ever hope for.

As for being stapled, that would mean that JetBlue were "aquired". Market capitalization of the legacy carriers doesn't support that any could cover the bill. USAir for instance has 279 aircraft with 236 million in M.C. United is even worse. JetBlue on the other had had 56 airplanes and 2.4 billion in MC...... Dollars and cents, the investment world doesn't believe in lagacy carriers, union shops, or hub and spoke operations. The darlings who those with cash are betting on are Frontier, JetBlue, AirTran, any Virgin startup, Atlantic Coast, and SWA.

Remember, as long as you are paying dues its all good. However when you're furloughed and not paying 2% you are dead. ALPA will not help you with your mortgage. ALPA will not pay your car payment. ALPA will be there with their hand out the second you are recalled. ALPA will be there the second you start flying for a non-union shop to offer reflection on your wrong doing by taking work from a fraternal brother...... Right, Fraternal because ALPA is not a national union. The plumbers union has more substance than your beloved ALPA.....

All that and I am a dues paying member. I do not work for JetBlue, but respect very much the fact that they had the balls to go out and do something different and not fall inline with the post-78 deregulation mess.

Good job & Go blue!
 
Bigsky said:
He can't. But I wish him luck intrying. This should be a for a laugh.
If I may quote your previous post: "NEWS FLASH....ALPA did ruin US Airways."

First you say they did, now you say they didn't.
What exactly IS your position on this issue, Senator Kerry? :huh:
 
ooops typing too fast and forgot the "NOT"

BTW, I was just inquiring if B6 was considering going ALPA. If it's not for you then don't do it. cheers