Amfa Reps Blame The Members For The Blunder

[Checking it Out]

Read this and you will see why the TWU is Superior

It pays to hire professionals, amatures give away your job and livelyhoods! Amfa blames everyone else for their failures. When will they stand up and admit they have failed as an Association. As members continue to be laid off at NW and United they continue to lie to potential members.

During our contract amendement last year, Two main objects were long term survival and retirement. The TWU retained both. And understood it's better to fight for other issues when the time is right. Amfa wants you to believe pay is more important. How much are you making if you are unemployed? or better yet how much are the current amfa members making working at third party Maintenance with no hope of being recalled?

 

[1AA]

Read this and you will see why the TWU is Superior

It pays to hire professionals, amatures give away your job and livelyhoods! Amfa blames everyone else for their failures. When will they stand up and admit they have failed as an Association. As members continue to be laid off at NW and United they continue to lie to potential members.

During our contract amendement last year, Two main objects were long term survival and retirement. The TWU retained both. And understood it's better to fight for other issues when the time is right. Amfa wants you to believe pay is more important. How much are you making if you are unemployed? or better yet how much are the current amfa members making working at third party Maintenance with no hope of being recalled?

So explain to me how the TWU saved or protected our Pension???

We took a 17.5% base paycut and half pay sick time for the first two days. That affects my pension. :angry:

How can you see long term survival for the membership under the TWU? :huh:

By the way did you know that the Pilots received their first snap back January 1st.
Yea, that's right, a Snap back of 7% pay increase. What did we get on January 1st? Higher medical deductions.

The TWU is on borrowed time.

 

[Bob Owens]

Read this and you will see why the TWU is Superior

It pays to hire professionals, amatures give away your job and livelyhoods! Amfa blames everyone else for their failures. When will they stand up and admit they have failed as an Association. As members continue to be laid off at NW and United they continue to lie to potential members.

During our contract amendement last year, Two main objects were long term survival and retirement. The TWU retained both. And understood it's better to fight for other issues when the time is right. Amfa wants you to believe pay is more important. How much are you making if you are unemployed? or better yet how much are the current amfa members making working at third party Maintenance with no hope of being recalled?

Ok I read it. It was a call for members to get involved. Specifically, unlike the TWU that says "get involved" but does not specify.

The letter calls for members to participate in changing contract language and to observe negotiations.

Can TWU members observe negotiations? Can they really have input into language changes or can they simply make recommendations only to have Art Luby shoot them down?

Who determined our two main objectives? The union or the members?

At what point in time are we going to fight to gain back what we lost in 1983, nevermind 2003? The fact is that the TWU has not fought for anything at AA since 1969.


By the way how many TWU members are still on the street? Is it over 3000? So not only do we work for less than non-union companies but we still saw our brothers and sisters tossed out in the street.

The average TWU member makes $15/hr while the average AMFA member makes over $30/hr.

The TWU is an Industrial union, following the "loaf of bread theory". That means that their goal is to bring all those under the average of $15/hr up to $15 and bring us down to it.

The fact is that the average AMFA member earns double of what the average TWU member earns. We are at the top, there is nowhere for us to go in this union but down.The average TWU member would have to work 40 years to make what the average AMFA member makes in 20 years. So even if the AMFA member is laid off for 10 years of his career he will make more than the average TWU member.

This industry never offered security. If you want security work for the government. The goal of airline workers has been to make money while working, not to work for less in the hope that an employer will keep you on payroll even if there is no work. The fact is even if you agree to work for minimum wage the company will still let you go.

The workers at NWA have a better chance of being recalled than the laid off workers at AA. NWA is making money.

 

[TWU informer]

Amfa wants you to believe pay is more important. How much are you making if you are unemployed? or better yet how much are the current amfa members making working at third party Maintenance with no hope of being recalled?

Another simpleton lie from CIO. I read the letter CIO, and fail to see the TWU is Superior in anyway. Unless you mean "without further ratification" is superior to a call for membership involvement?

There are 2808 members who are awaiting and Arbitrators decision on Force Majeure Grievances. The day these members return to a profitable, instead of a management squandered quagmire, is the day you will eat your own words and a rather large crow on the barbie.

Your continued disengenuous comments do nothing but strengthen both our support and resolve.

Hey CIO, do you know what the date is today? Last I ckecked, you were a full day off.

 

[j7915]

Read this and you will see why the TWU is Superior

It pays to hire professionals, amatures give away your job and livelyhoods! Amfa blames everyone else for their failures. When will they stand up and admit they have failed as an Association. As members continue to be laid off at NW and United they continue to lie to potential members.

During our contract amendement last year, Two main objects were long term survival and retirement. The TWU retained both. And understood it's better to fight for other issues when the time is right. Amfa wants you to believe pay is more important. How much are you making if you are unemployed? or better yet how much are the current amfa members making working at third party Maintenance with no hope of being recalled?

So explain to me how the TWU saved or protected our Pension???

We took a 17.5% base paycut and half pay sick time for the first two days. That affects my pension. :angry:

How can you see long term survival for the membership under the TWU? :huh:

By the way did you know that the Pilots received their first snap back January 1st.
Yea, that's right, a Snap back of 7% pay increase. What did we get on January 1st? Higher medical deductions.

The TWU is on borrowed time.

The pilots have better negotiators than the mechanics? Fleet service got a better deal. So you want to have all mechs in one union. misery loves company, I guess. Besides why should only NWA and UAL have 50% of their mechs laid of and the jobs eliminated?

 

[TWU informer]

Here we go again.

The one man many alias, sign-on and sign-off magic show by the lone TWU supporter left on the planet.

 

[Bob Owens]

Read this and you will see why the TWU is Superior

It pays to hire professionals, amatures give away your job and livelyhoods! Amfa blames everyone else for their failures. When will they stand up and admit they have failed as an Association. As members continue to be laid off at NW and United they continue to lie to potential members.

During our contract amendement last year, Two main objects were long term survival and retirement. The TWU retained both. And understood it's better to fight for other issues when the time is right. Amfa wants you to believe pay is more important. How much are you making if you are unemployed? or better yet how much are the current amfa members making working at third party Maintenance with no hope of being recalled?

So explain to me how the TWU saved or protected our Pension???

We took a 17.5% base paycut and half pay sick time for the first two days. That affects my pension. :angry:

How can you see long term survival for the membership under the TWU? :huh:

By the way did you know that the Pilots received their first snap back January 1st.
Yea, that's right, a Snap back of 7% pay increase. What did we get on January 1st? Higher medical deductions.

The TWU is on borrowed time.

The pilots have better negotiators than the mechanics? Fleet service got a better deal. So you want to have all mechs in one union. misery loves company, I guess. Besides why should only NWA and UAL have 50% of their mechs laid of and the jobs eliminated?

No union has been better at eliminating jobs than the TWU. When are mechanics going to get back pushbacks, deicing and shop work? These are things they gave away in the 80s that they never got back. Things that UAL and USAIR got in C-11. They had to go C-11 to get what the TWU gave away two decades ago. How many thousands of A&P jobs has the TWU given away over the years? How many stations out there no longer have A&P mechanics out there?

The thing is that the layoffs at other carriers seem severe because they are cutting these jobs all at once while the TWU has been cutting them away from A&P mechanics for twenty years.

What is the ratio of A&P mechanics, paid as such, at AA and its competitors per aircraft?

What was it two years ago?

The fact is that this industry has historically been one that lays off deeply during the hard times and brings back workers when things get better, that is the main purpose of seniority, as you get more seniority you dont get hit with the layoffs. The cycle coincides with the economic cycle. Sure we take a hit during the hard times, thats why our unions support things like Unemployment insurance, food stamps and welfare.

We have unions to help us fight for better wages and benifits. If all you want is a job, at any rate of pay, and you dont want to fight then do all of us union men and women a favor and quit and go work for Walmart. Unions are about sticking together and fighting to keep or improve, not about giving everything away to the company because they demanded it.

The biggest problem with the TWU is that they agree to long term concessions during the hard times. Concessions that outlast the need for them. When the members realize this the union blames them for voting for the concessions. They claimed that they learned their lesson in 95, and that it would not happen again, so what do they do? On the eve of a recovery they agree to the most massive concessionary package ever for a period of six years! In order to get it through they lied to the members, exaggerated the companys threats to include liquidation and pulled out misleading examples of past bankruptcy rulings to make the members believe that abrogation, no matter what the comany was demanding, was a sure thing in C-11.

The fact is that for over two decades the TWU has been the industry leader in concessions. From "B scale, to Part Time, Cross Utilization, SRPs, Flex Benifits, Prefunding, to the fiasco of 2003 the TWU has been leading the industry down. The numbers dont lie. The graph that was included in the Ad that local 562 put in the Tulsa World was submitted to Jim Little months earlier, he not only agreed with it but claimed that my numbers for inflation were not high enough, in other words the drop should have been steeper. We can only speculate as to their real motives for leading us down, but the fact is undistputed, even by Jim Little that that is where we have been going. Despite this, even after 20 years the TWU has no plan to change this direction, after all we still have to come down another $15/hr to be where the average TWU member is. By the end of this contract we will be half way there.

 

[Calvin]

How many thousands of A&P jobs has the TWU given away over the years?

Mr Owens, with all due respect, please name me 100 jobs the TWU has given away. And please feel free to go back to 1934. Thank you.

 

[AMFAMAN]

How many thousands of A&P jobs has the TWU given away over the years?

Mr Owens, with all due respect, please name me 100 jobs the TWU has given away. And please feel free to go back to 1934. Thank you.

How about several thousand AMT jobs over the years outsourced to fleet service, i.e. receipt and dispatch, deicing. We can go shop by shop, such as the 757 APU shop, and determine job losses due to outsourcing, but you really don't care because most likely your being paid by the twu.


Recently the twu has just allowed cabin cleaning on the overnights to be outsourced.

 

[Calvin]

Now I'm being paid from the TWU? I can sell the farm! Thank you AMFAMAN, but could you do me one favor and bargain me a raise please? I know with the name of AMFAMAN you'll do well sir. And I'll even furnish 3 goats to watch the process. That's 2 sheep more than AMFA had, no pun intended.

So why do you suppose almost no members went to the negotiations? I'll bet it would be different at AA. I wonder how packed their monthly meetings are now that they are a mechanics only union. Professionals, with Integrity and Knowledge.
The guiding light to our industry.

BTW, I asked for 100 job listings, not names of 100 guys that de-iced. The statement was made the TWU has lost 1000's of jobs, what specifically is that based on and what are the classifications? Or did I misunderstand the question, that's also a possibility. In one paragraph I read an AMFA supporter state that it's the company that outsources, then the next guy states it's the union that does it, guess it depends on who's reading what when.

But you probably do not really care, you're probably paid by AMFA anyways.

 

[mojo13]

Amfaman was probably typing to fast and really didn't mean that.

 

[Oldweirdharold]

Posted: Jan 4 2004, 07:31 AM

Member CALVIN

Group: Member
Posts: 45
Member No.: 3,150
Joined: 28-December 03

Now I'm being paid from the TWU? I can sell the farm! Thank you AMFAMAN, but could you do me one favor and bargain me a raise please? I know with the name of AMFAMAN you'll do well sir. And I'll even furnish 3 goats to watch the process. That's 2 sheep more than AMFA had, no pun intended.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


At first I gave this Calvin person the benifit of the doubt but in reading these latest postings can see his true prurpose is to incite and upset reasonable dialog.
Evidence when given clear examples and a timeline of events showing cause and effect he ignores or feigns ignorance while pretending to be some down home Gomer Pyle type of good ol boy just sitting around chewin a cud looking for answers..

Cal, or whoever/whatever you are I ain't buying it and it's time to change to a new alias and adopt a new personna, the Gomer goat roper shtick has run it's course.. Try again, try coming out into the light being yourself and using your real name or is it more comfy being a candyass cartoon charector???

Jim Anderson dock 4D Tulsa Oklahoma AMT

 

[Rusty]

In one paragraph I read an AMFA supporter state that it's the company that outsources, then the next guy states it's the union that does it, guess it depends on who's reading what when.

TeamCalvin, the confussion comes from the company and the TWU being in bed together and cannot be seperated.

 

[j7915]

Read this and you will see why the TWU is Superior

It pays to hire professionals, amatures give away your job and livelyhoods! Amfa blames everyone else for their failures. When will they stand up and admit they have failed as an Association. As members continue to be laid off at NW and United they continue to lie to potential members.

During our contract amendement last year, Two main objects were long term survival and retirement. The TWU retained both. And understood it's better to fight for other issues when the time is right. Amfa wants you to believe pay is more important. How much are you making if you are unemployed? or better yet how much are the current amfa members making working at third party Maintenance with no hope of being recalled?

So explain to me how the TWU saved or protected our Pension???

We took a 17.5% base paycut and half pay sick time for the first two days. That affects my pension. :angry:

How can you see long term survival for the membership under the TWU? :huh:

By the way did you know that the Pilots received their first snap back January 1st.
Yea, that's right, a Snap back of 7% pay increase. What did we get on January 1st? Higher medical deductions.

The TWU is on borrowed time.

The pilots have better negotiators than the mechanics? Fleet service got a better deal. So you want to have all mechs in one union. misery loves company, I guess. Besides why should only NWA and UAL have 50% of their mechs laid of and the jobs eliminated?

No union has been better at eliminating jobs than the TWU. When are mechanics going to get back pushbacks, deicing and shop work? These are things they gave away in the 80s that they never got back. Things that UAL and USAIR got in C-11. They had to go C-11 to get what the TWU gave away two decades ago. How many thousands of A&P jobs has the TWU given away over the years? How many stations out there no longer have A&P mechanics out there?

The thing is that the layoffs at other carriers seem severe because they are cutting these jobs all at once while the TWU has been cutting them away from A&P mechanics for twenty years.

What is the ratio of A&P mechanics, paid as such, at AA and its competitors per aircraft?

What was it two years ago?

The fact is that this industry has historically been one that lays off deeply during the hard times and brings back workers when things get better, that is the main purpose of seniority, as you get more seniority you dont get hit with the layoffs. The cycle coincides with the economic cycle. Sure we take a hit during the hard times, thats why our unions support things like Unemployment insurance, food stamps and welfare.

We have unions to help us fight for better wages and benifits. If all you want is a job, at any rate of pay, and you dont want to fight then do all of us union men and women a favor and quit and go work for Walmart. Unions are about sticking together and fighting to keep or improve, not about giving everything away to the company because they demanded it.

The biggest problem with the TWU is that they agree to long term concessions during the hard times. Concessions that outlast the need for them. When the members realize this the union blames them for voting for the concessions. They claimed that they learned their lesson in 95, and that it would not happen again, so what do they do? On the eve of a recovery they agree to the most massive concessionary package ever for a period of six years! In order to get it through they lied to the members, exaggerated the companys threats to include liquidation and pulled out misleading examples of past bankruptcy rulings to make the members believe that abrogation, no matter what the comany was demanding, was a sure thing in C-11.

The fact is that for over two decades the TWU has been the industry leader in concessions. From "B scale, to Part Time, Cross Utilization, SRPs, Flex Benifits, Prefunding, to the fiasco of 2003 the TWU has been leading the industry down. The numbers dont lie. The graph that was included in the Ad that local 562 put in the Tulsa World was submitted to Jim Little months earlier, he not only agreed with it but claimed that my numbers for inflation were not high enough, in other words the drop should have been steeper. We can only speculate as to their real motives for leading us down, but the fact is undistputed, even by Jim Little that that is where we have been going. Despite this, even after 20 years the TWU has no plan to change this direction, after all we still have to come down another $15/hr to be where the average TWU member is. By the end of this contract we will be half way there.

First I don't see any reason to repost my opinion more than occasionally. Second Bob, when I was laid off from AA in 1980 there were around 2600 people in title one. Now there are how many? do the math, the TWU really gave away lots of jobs.

Now to start the New Year of right, why are all you highly skilled mechanics with your expensive A&P tickets so eager to do cold miserable or just plain semi-skilled work? Particularly after all the moaning about the pay cut.

 

[TWU informer]

So now j7915 thinks buying TWA was a superior idea. As long as it creates jobs and increases headcount, then who cares what it cost the working man and his family. He is without question a teAAm twu leader.

Hey j7915, how about you work $11.50 per hour with ZERO benefits? Think of the jobs AA would add then pal?