Amt Wages And Benefits

[goingboeing]

The decline in AMT wages and benefits is not going to go away anytime soon. The current trends for outsourcing of maintenance to 3rd parties is increasing.There are more 3rd party maintenance operations popping up in the U.S. They have borrowed from the automobile industry who made an end run around trade laws by building assembly plants in the U.S. Their labor costs are MUCH LOWER than the Major Airlines which puts pressure on ALL the airlines to go with more 3rd party maintenance.

Another major problem with the industry is that there are TOO MANY A&P Schools that are flooding the market with AMT's willing to work for lower wages.We should borrow from the pharmacy colleges who limit the amount of students they accept and graduate each year.This keeps the demand high thus the wages and benefits.

I have 19 years as an AMT with AA and I don't see a future of improving compensation but of declining wages and benefits.If I take another major wage hit I will not be able to afford to work at AA. I'll just have to retrain in another profession. Just some out-loud thoughts about the current state of the AMT job market.

 

[Bob Owens]

If we are to save this profession the first thing we need to do as mechanics is get a union that believes that we are a profession.

The TWU has been hostile to A&P mechanics. They are consistant devised ways to either siphon way work from A&Ps or created lower paid subclasses.

THe TWUs hostility towards high paid airline workers has not been confined just to mechanics though, they also created "jumior fleet service clerks" and many other low paid subclasses of workers.


If we are to save our profession we must leave sellout business unions like the TWU that are willing to degrade workers in order to increase membership. The sad fact is the RLA promotes such unionism and makes it extremely difficult for workers to hold their unions accountable.

After we get into AMFA we will only be starting our struggle. We must complete the drive to get ALL aircraft mechanics in AMFA, including third party, then lobby for restrictions on shipping the work overseas, getting rid of the RLA and being placed under the NLRA, getting more control over the supply of A&Ps and working out a means of having portable seniority.

 

[Nightwatch]

If we are to save this profession the first thing we need to do as mechanics is get a union that believes that we are a profession.

The TWU has been hostile to A&P mechanics. They are consistant devised ways to either siphon way work from A&Ps or created lower paid subclasses.

THe TWUs hostility towards high paid airline workers has not been confined just to mechanics though, they also created "jumior fleet service clerks" and many other low paid subclasses of workers.


If we are to save our profession we must leave sellout business unions like the TWU that are willing to degrade workers in order to increase membership. The sad fact is the RLA promotes such unionism and makes it extremely difficult for workers to hold their unions accountable.

After we get into AMFA we will only be starting our struggle. We must complete the drive to get ALL aircraft mechanics in AMFA, including third party, then lobby for restrictions on shipping the work overseas, getting rid of the RLA and being placed under the NLRA, getting more control over the supply of A&Ps and working out a means of having portable seniority.

The TWU has been hostile to A&P mechanics.

Please explain. Someone has been hostile to me and i didn't realize it? Thank you Mr. Owens for letting me know. Please explain so I can address my steward with anomosity.

 

[Bob Owens]

Please explain. Someone has been hostile to me and i didn't realize it? Thank you Mr. Owens for letting me know. Please explain so I can address my steward with anomosity.

The actions of the TWU have been detrimental to the profession.

The TWU has consistantly worked to lower the demand for A&P mechanics. Lowering the demand for A&P mechanics is detrimental to the profession because it eventually drives down wages and reduces our bargaining power.

Following that so far?



In 1983 the TWU started the attack upon the profession when they agreed to transfer work, that was traditionally accomplished by and provided jobs for A&P mechanics, to lower paid non-A&P workers. As a result mechanics were no longer employed in several stations. Stations like Buffalo that even had a hanger no longer had any A&P mechanics.

The TWU later went on to transfer Deicing away from mechanics. Further reducing the need for A&P mechanics.

The TWU created SRPs which eliminated thousands of A&P jobs and created a permanent underclass within the Maint & related class. This further reduced the demand for A&Ps.

The TWU was the only union in the industry that had cabin service accomplish the security checks on aircraft, more work away from A&P mechanics.

The TWU has never tried to promote legislation that would require that all aircraft maint is performed by A&P mechanics, in fact they have done the opposite and pushed to have more and more work done by non-A&Ps.

The TWUs station staffing formula does not require that the company have A&P mechanics at any line station. The language only addresses TWU employees of any classification, at the sole discretion of the company. A&P mechanics are among the highest paid of TWU represented workers. The company will staff stations with the lowets paid workers first. AA has many stations where there are TWU members but no mechanics. Some of those stations used to have mechanics prior to the 1983 agreement.

Capice?

 

[Nightwatch]

The actions of the TWU have been detrimental to the profession.

The TWU has consistantly worked to lower the demand for A&P mechanics. Lowering the demand for A&P mechanics is detrimental to the profession because it eventually drives down wages and reduces our bargaining power.

Following that so far?



In 1983 the TWU started the attack upon the profession when they agreed to transfer work, that was traditionally accomplished by and provided jobs for A&P mechanics, to lower paid non-A&P workers. As a result mechanics were no longer employed in several stations. Stations like Buffalo that even had a hanger no longer had any A&P mechanics.

The TWU later went on to transfer Deicing away from mechanics. Further reducing the need for A&P mechanics.

The TWU created SRPs which eliminated thousands of A&P jobs and created a permanent underclass within the Maint & related class. This further reduced the demand for A&Ps.

The TWU was the only union in the industry that had cabin service accomplish the security checks on aircraft, more work away from A&P mechanics.

The TWU has never tried to promote legislation that would require that all aircraft maint is performed by A&P mechanics, in fact they have done the opposite and pushed to have more and more work done by non-A&Ps.

Capice?

So by your statements I should question why AMFA was hostile to UAL. Why they were hostile to NWA and Alaskan Air.

Or, does the change of industry only count against the TWU. BTW...how many members did AMFA have in 1983?

1966-1986 20 years at Ozark, yet they never led the industry in wages or benefits. They promised to get mechanics they pay they wanted, but after 20 years they were never able to deliver the big paychecks they promised.
All receipt and dispatch was done by gate agents, not mechanics, but gate agents.
All engine and APU work was farmed out to Cooper Airmotive (IAM) in Dallas, Texas.
All ground equipment and building maintenance work was farmed out.
Numerous letters of agreement were signed without consent of the membership.

 

[Bob Owens]

So by your statements I should question why AMFA was hostile to UAL. Why they were hostile to NWA and Alaskan Air.

Rome was not built in a day and it will take several contract cycles to undo the damage that unions like the TWU have wrought.

Or, does the change of industry only count against the TWU.

The TWU facilitated negative change even though other AFL-CIO unions like the IAM held out longer.

BTW...how many members did AMFA have in 1983?

Dont know, probably not enough to have an impact on the entire industry like the concessionary TWU.

1966-1986 20 years at Ozark, yet they never led the industry in wages or benefits. They promised to get mechanics they pay they wanted, but after 20 years they were never able to deliver the big paychecks they promised.

Oh really? I recall seeing one of their contracts back then. It looked better than ours with B-scale, twelve years to top, 4 weeks max vacation, no credit towards the pension or benifits for the first year, etc. Everyone I ever met who belonged to AMFA wanted AMFA. However I've never met someone from another airline who came to AA who liked the TWU. Especially the Pan Am workers.

All receipt and dispatch was done by gate agents, not mechanics, but gate agents.
All engine and APU work was farmed out to Cooper Airmotive (IAM) in Dallas, Texas.
All ground equipment and building maintenance work was farmed out.
Numerous letters of agreement were signed without consent of the membership.

Could the members hold accountable and vote out those who made the letters of agreement? Can we? You can make any claims you like but can you support them?

 

[Rusty]

1966-1986 20 years at Ozark, yet they never led the industry in wages or benefits. They promised to get mechanics they pay they wanted, but after 20 years they were never able to deliver the big paychecks they promised.

Nightwatch, you are not lying again are you???

 

[Nightwatch]

Nightwatch, you are not lying again are you???

I get my information from search engines as I did not attend all negotiations and arbitrations as Mr. Owens obviously has. Lying, no sir. Why do you ask such a statement? And if I am to question my findings prior to post, then I should also question yours. Are you lying AGAIN?

 

[Rusty]

I get my information from search engines as I did not attend all negotiations and arbitrations as Mr. Owens obviously has. Lying, no sir. Why do you ask such a statement? And if I am to question my findings prior to post, then I should also question yours. Are you lying AGAIN?

Seguro, in my above post I have shown the documentation I am going off of. If you do not wish to let me believe you are lying again then please show me your documentation, otherwise I will have to conclude status-quo!!!

Here it is again!!!

Ozark/AMFA VS. twuAA

(twuaa)
Now, you just gotta luv that Seguro!!!

 

[Nightwatch]

Seguro, in my above post I have shown the documentation I am going off of. If you do not wish to let me believe you are lying again then please show me your documentation, otherwise I will have to conclude status-quo!!!

Here it is again!!!

Ozark/AMFA VS. twuAA

(twuaa)
Now, you just gotta luv that Seguro!!!

You post a chart that has no credits listed? I believe you are Seguro, look up the translation in the Spanish dictionary sir.

I do take note that if a person posts anti-AMFA here they are either Kevin or Steve Connell. I'll be either, your choice.

 

[Bob Owens]

I get my information from search engines as I did not attend all negotiations and arbitrations as Mr. Owens obviously has. Lying, no sir. Why do you ask such a statement? And if I am to question my findings prior to post, then I should also question yours. Are you lying AGAIN?

Did I claim that? Are you having trouble following the debate?

Funny Rusty posts evidence to support his position and you change the subject. Whats the matter Nightwatch, you got nothing to back up your claims?

 

[FWAAA]

Once again, Mr Owens resorts to arguing that the mechanics union should featherbed in order to preserve its cushy way of life.

He mentioned deicing, receipt and dispatch plus security checks as activities that A&P license holders should perform. There must be others he longs to bring into the fold:

What about aircraft cleaning (inside and outside)?

What about fueling?

Lavatory service?

Should an A&P mechanic wash the plane's windows? Vaccum the carpet?

What about terminal janitorial service?

Why not have an A&P mechanic load the bags?

Perhaps the position of skycap should require an A&P license.

If your best hope to restore the dignity and respect garnered by the profession of aircraft mechanic is to lobby for laws requiring that all of the above (and maybe more) be performed by the holder of an A&P license, then your profession is in sad shape, indeed.

Instead, how about trying to sell business owners on the idea that you can perform your legitimate tasks more efficiently and competently than others?

 

[Buck]

As the entity that represents the mechanics lowers our wages......

 

[1AA]

What Bob Owens is trying to point out is that the TWU gave security inspections as well as deicing and pushbacks to the ramp and fleet service. This was a position held by AMT's for years. With this in mind the TWU and company now say that they belong with us in our class and craft. What a joke!!

Speaking of security checks, I had a 777 almost air interupt back because the aircraft was unable to accelarate past max speed with the landing gear down. Even though the landing gear was up the aircraft thought otherwise. After a long period of time converising on the radio with the tech guys they finally found out that a guarded switch in the E/E compartment was out of normal configuaration. This switch was next to the light switch. They are guarded and clearly labeled.
The only folks that were in the E/E compartment were the security folks. The were looking for the light switch in order to do their security check in the E/E compartment. First of all these part time security people have no idea what they are looking for and do not know what the dangers and consiquences are if they move a switch or touch something that they shouldn't. Example above is a good one.

If anyone should be in our class and craft it should be the pilots. They assist us in troubleshooting when we can not do so and they also understand how the aircraft systems work, the rampers do not. We work closer with the flight crews in performing our maintenance duties. And yes cleaning windows is in our contract.

We do our jobs in a safe and legitimate manner. You just have no idea what is involved from start to finish on a flight. All that is involved to move one aircraft safely from point to point.

Have a safe flight.......

 

[goingboeing]

My original posting was really more about factors outside the airline business that are having a profound effect on the wages and benefits of AMT's. This really should not have turned into a AMFA vs TWU debate although I would vote for AMFA if given the choice.