Another Bankrubtcy Extention
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No surprise here, waiting the ATSB ruling, it will be a 60 day minimum to file the plan and have it approved by the court. June 30th was overcome by events some time ago.
JB Guppy
JB Guppy
IMHO, United has no intentions of emerging from Chapter 11 until late in 2004 or perhaps Q1 2005 at the earliest. Given the current industry environment, I don't blame management for staying in bankruptcy as long as practicable. Then again, little has been done to actually prepare for BK emergence...
While I don't doubt UA will delay emergence from Ch.11, I am curious as to what you are basing that last bit on, that little has been done to prepare.avek00 said:
Got the WHQ senior management conference rooms bugged? Just get off the phone with Tilton and he shared the details of his plans with you? ESP? Been talking to USAir320Pilot who shared his wisdom with you?
Just waiting for Busdrvr to weigh-in on why this is another stunning victory for United. Or, perhaps, did he get suspended due to his last little go-around with Stratocruiser?
Who me?! I think I was civil beyond the call considering Strato's original unedited post. I didn't even make a little rhyming joke with his name.... . Pure and simple, UAL HAS to keep getting extentions until the ATSB decides to postpone a golf game or two and actually render a decision. These guys don't operate under any kind of timetable :down: . in any case, despite my zillion and half posts, I typically don't weigh in unless I feel I have something to contribute.
. Pure and simple, UAL HAS to keep getting extentions until the ATSB decides to postpone a golf game or two and actually render a decision. These guys don't operate under any kind of timetable :down: . in any case, despite my zillion and half posts, I typically don't weigh in unless I feel I have something to contribute. I have to agree with Busdrvr on this one. UA needs the time to submit its business plan if it gets the ATSB loan. And if the ATSB rejects UA's loan application they will need even more time to implement Plan-B.
I believe the ideal window of opportunity has been missed this year for UAs emergence from BK, and they would be best suited to ride it out until the end of 1Q '05. If I were King Tilton, I would not have focussed on the ATSB, and took the best available financing deal out there (albeit on less favorable terms), to have taken advantage of a May or June '04 exit. Down the road, as the company becomes more healthy the debt could be refinanced.
I believe the ideal window of opportunity has been missed this year for UAs emergence from BK, and they would be best suited to ride it out until the end of 1Q '05. If I were King Tilton, I would not have focussed on the ATSB, and took the best available financing deal out there (albeit on less favorable terms), to have taken advantage of a May or June '04 exit. Down the road, as the company becomes more healthy the debt could be refinanced.
I came to thisconclusion by looking at the changes that have been made to the way United does business over the past two years: while United is operating less expensively than in the past, it is not operating differently than before. In other words, United is more or less continuing to do the same things that lost it alot of money, only its losing less for now because it has temporarily fleeced the stakeholders through the bankruptcy process. As a result, IMHO, the current "restructuring" effort amounts to little more than United postponing the inevitable final day of reckoning that will occur unless the company's business model itself radically changes.Bear96 said:While I don't doubt UA will delay emergence from Ch.11, I am curious as to what you are basing that last bit on, that little has been done to prepare.
Got the WHQ senior management conference rooms bugged? Just get off the phone with Tilton and he shared the details of his plans with you? ESP? Been talking to USAir320Pilot who shared his wisdom with you?
I would also agree that with the fuel prices being so much higher right now and with UA's inability to to hedge at lower prices, that UA would have to amend their application for much higher costs. I would think, and this is only a guess, that their fuel price on the application was around $32/33 a barrel. Just my thoughts......
Ahhh, now that's different.avek00 said:
I guess you should have said, "IN MY OPINION, not much has been done to prepare..." Or "I AM NOT AWARE of any plans to prepare..." Or "I DOUBT much has been done to prepare..." Or "IT IS MY CONCLUSION THAT not much has been done to prepare..."
As opposed to a more fact-based sounding "Little has ACTUALLY been done," unless you can ACTUALLY back that up with facts instead of opinion.
Busdrvr:Busdrvr said:Who me?! I think I was civil beyond the call considering Strato's original unedited post. I didn't even make a little rhyming joke with his name....
My apologies. I think it's in everyone's best interest to keep the discussions civil, and therefore I don't want to engage you (or anyone else, for that matter) in a mud-slinging contest. Stratocruiser's on his own, though.
Then I'll say it...IN MY OPINION...Ual has not done anything differently in my area. I would assume not much has changed in any of the other areas as well. United has had a broken business model for a long, long time. It's stucture, management, CBA's, and overall culture preclude any appreciable change. Though it will probably cost me my job, I do not think they should receive government backing specifically because of this. Jake Brace amongst others of that consortium should be in jail along with many union leaders. What has been indoctrinated into the culture at Ual (and other carriers I assume, except they are not in BK) does not and cannot compete or function in todays market or operating enviroment. Until these issues are addressed and corrected, UAL is nothing more than a dinasaur that has not accepted it's inevitable fate. The only thing for certain is nothing is for certain and change is constant. Those who adapt survive, those who don't wind up on the discovery channel. But this is only MY HUMBLE OPINION...Bear96 said:
Just a small point, but if the standard that applies is USA320's "7% in 7 years" rule, then I could go out today and lock in fuel for 6 years from now at less than $28 a barrel. The even funnier thing is that airlines typically do NOT hedge fuel costs with jet fuel. They buy futures contracts for things like heating oil, and TRADE them for jet fuel. The assumption is that jet fuel costs will track in line with the futures.coolflyingfool said:
