Another Downgrade For Delta Sends Stock Down

[FA Mikey]

downgrade sends stock to 20 year low

Goldman Sachs analyst Glenn Engel cited the deteriorating tone of pilot negotiations in his downgrade of Delta's stock Friday to underperform from in-line. He said in a research note that "the probability of a Delta bankruptcy filing is rising."

That assessment, coupled with a Fitch Ratings' downgrade Thursday of Delta's credit rating on some of its debt, sent the Atlanta-based company's stock sharply lower.

downgrade sends stock to 20 year low

 

[LiveInAHotel]

This just goes to show how greedy airline CEO's and top executives are! :angry:

 

[Vikedog64]

This just goes to show how greedy airline CEO's and top executives are! :angry:

You are nothing but a stupid idiot with an ax to grind. I have read your posts over the past few months and your comments amaze me. What do the downgrades have to do with our CEO? Delta is on the verge of Chap. 11 and unfortunately ALPA doesn't see it. Heres some news for ALPA... Other employees have already taken a cut and will take more. All our pilots have done is taken raises as recently as May of 2004. You all want to go in front of a judge and let him or her decide? Be my guest! Our pilot group will be lucke to escape with 35%!!! Quit drinking the ALPA kool-aid. They are selling the DAL pilots down the riverand they don't even know it!!! :down:

 

[FA Mikey]

You are nothing but a stupid idiot with an ax to grind. I have read your posts over the past few months and your comments amaze me. What do the downgrades have to do with our CEO? Delta is on the verge of Chap. 11 and unfortunately ALPA doesn't see it. Heres some news for ALPA... Other employees have already taken a cut and will take more. All our pilots have done is taken raises as recently as May of 2004. You all want to go in front of a judge and let him or her decide? Be my guest! Our pilot group will be lucke to escape with 35%!!! Quit drinking the ALPA kool-aid. They are selling the DAL pilots down the riverand they don't even know it!!! :down:

[post="166391"][/post]​

Well, assuming the CEO and the rest of management plan to share in these reductions in pay, and that Delta has cut all the waste from there system, Maximized scheduling of A/C and crews. Well then Yea the pilots should be next in line to help out. But since nothing of the above has happened and Delta is playing this up in the papers for maximum results well then I would be a hold out too. The main reason everyone else has already been cut except pilots and management is that pilots have a union and a CBA, one the company agree to abide by. Management makes the rules and sets the bar. They will never drop there own.

PS When you start out calling someone a stupid idiot, It really shows a true lack of intelligence, and professionalism. If you want to try to make a credible argument for another view. Calling the previous poster names kills it for anyone taking your view seriously. By the way, did you know we have rules against doing just that?

 

[LiveInAHotel]

You are nothing but a stupid idiot with an ax to grind. I have read your posts over the past few months and your comments amaze me. What do the downgrades have to do with our CEO? Delta is on the verge of Chap. 11 and unfortunately ALPA doesn't see it. Heres some news for ALPA... Other employees have already taken a cut and will take more. All our pilots have done is taken raises as recently as May of 2004. You all want to go in front of a judge and let him or her decide? Be my guest! Our pilot group will be lucke to escape with 35%!!! Quit drinking the ALPA kool-aid. They are selling the DAL pilots down the riverand they don't even know it!!! :down:

[post="166391"][/post]​

No, I'm not an idiot! You need to walk into your bathroom and look in the mirror!! I also don't have an axe to grind. I just will not let a group of greedy CEO's walk all over me and my fellow union brothers and sisters. Oh, I don't drink the ALPA Kool-Aid, because I don't belong to ALPA and I don't listen and believe what management tells me. I don't drink the Delta sauce like you and your non-union co-workers. The pilots will hold out and get what they want. They're not going to hand the Grinch the contract on a silver platter.

Now as for you, run a long and go read a book on labor negotiations. It will do you some good. Here is a place you can start for your book search: B & N

 

[Vikedog64]

Well, assuming the CEO and the rest of management plan to share in these reductions in pay, and that Delta has cut all the waste from there system, Maximized scheduling of A/C and crews. Well then Yea the pilots should be next in line to help out. But since nothing of the above has happened and Delta is playing this up in the papers for maximum results well then I would be a hold out too. The main reason everyone else has already been cut except pilots and management is that pilots have a union and a CBA, one the company agree to abide by. Management makes the rules and sets the bar. They will never drop there own.

PS When you start out calling someone a stupid idiot, It really shows a true lack of intelligence, and professionalism. If you want to try to make a credible argument for another view. Calling the previous poster names kills it for anyone taking your view seriously. By the way, did you know we have rules against doing just that?

[post="166456"][/post]​

Yes Mike, I did know rules about that. My fault. However, I do not think that any major airline employees, in addition to our pilots realize how close to BK we are. Not just DAL but others also. In my view, it is imperative this gets resolved quickly. I believe that every day is another lost day. I do believe Jerry when he says that he wants to "do it once and do it right" instead of coming back to the employees again like UAL, USAirways and possibly even your AMR. Are all the analysts wrong when they talk about DAL needing 3-5 Billion in savings? Mikey, we all will not survive this new direction in the industry. I believe the longer we wait, the worse off we will be. I was with Western Airlines so I know about Jerry and about unions. Jerry will get upwards of 30% either in BK or outside of it. By the way, how much did you take when your union agreed to cuts? No flame, just curious...

 

[Vikedog64]

No, I'm not an idiot! You need to walk into your bathroom and look in the mirror!! I also don't have an axe to grind. I just will not let a group of greedy CEO's walk all over me and my fellow union brothers and sisters. Oh, I don't drink the ALPA Kool-Aid, because I don't belong to ALPA and I don't listen and believe what management tells me. I don't drink the Delta sauce like you and your non-union co-workers. The pilots will hold out and get what they want. They're not going to hand the Grinch the contract on a silver platter.

Now as for you, run a long and go read a book on labor negotiations. It will do you some good. Here is a place you can start for your book search: B & N

[post="166473"][/post]​

I do not need a book on labor negotiations. And as far as greedy CEO's, I agree. Jerry is being paid 500k a year with no incentives, contract or otherwise. I believe that for DAL to begin the healing process, credibility needs to start at the top. I and many others believe it has. Now it is time for everyone else to follow his lead. When the direction of DAL is revealed in the next couple of weeks, the changes here I believe will be fast and quite painful. I am a pro company employee but do not drink the "sauce".

 

[FA Mikey]

Yes Mike, I did know rules about that. My fault. However, I do not think that any major airline employees, in addition to our pilots realize how close to BK we are. Not just DAL but others also. In my view, it is imperative this gets resolved quickly. I believe that every day is another lost day. I do believe Jerry when he says that he wants to "do it once and do it right" instead of coming back to the employees again like UAL, USAirways and possibly even your AMR. Are all the analysts wrong when they talk about DAL needing 3-5 Billion in savings? Mikey, we all will not survive this new direction in the industry. I believe the longer we wait, the worse off we will be. I was with Western Airlines so I know about Jerry and about unions. Jerry will get upwards of 30% either in BK or outside of it. By the way, how much did you take when your union agreed to cuts? No flame, just curious...

[post="166483"][/post]​

I am sure they do know how close. The flight attendants at AA did and voted NO on the proposed changes. Then in a 24 extension in an unsecured vote it was turned around. We knew we were being screwed, most f/a's felt AA having to negotiate in good faith with the court watching over was better than what was in front of them. Had the negotiations been over longer period, had the company put cost to item the same way they did when we basically bought these items in negotiations. The original out come would have been quite different. It maybe just the same way there. Management undervaluing everything and trying to extort a greater amount from the pilots.

Delta needs to drop costs like all the others. No question. But like AA they want to get as much as they can off the backs of the hard working employees, Before they go through there bloated organization. To this day AA wastes hundreds of thousands of dollars and refuses to accept information that says otherwise.

The flight attendants took a 16.7% cut in pay lost over a weeks vacation, dropped sick accrual to 1/2 of what it was. Lost or E time or daily duty rig. Specialty pay was cut 50% pursers, galley and language all lost. We lost a truck load of rules and protections as well. Worst for some, but not me brought layovers to FAA mins. That is 8 hours block to block.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Mike,
As hard as it was for you to accept the changes that AA forced on you, the reality is that the market simply does not support all of the extra pay and rules that bad been built into the compensation packages for decades. The DL pilots will have to watch decades of progress be rolled back,, not because management is greedy and spiteful, but because that is what the market dictates. As long as DL management offers a contract that is one cent more generous than what can reasonably be expected to be obtained in bankruptcy, the pilots will have no choice but to settle outside of bankruptcy. The reality is that labor has very little leverage throughout the airline industry at the very same time those mgmt teams are being forced to find a way to compete with more nimble competitors. There is a breaking point where mgmt cannot reasonably expect to gain anything else because what they are asking is so substandard when compared with other airlines; that is what we are seeing at US but no employees at Delta are anywhere close to that level, however.

 

[LiveInAHotel]

Maybe Delta should have not created and wasted money with Song!! This was a mistake from the word go.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Hotel,
maybe, maybe not. Either way, management holds the trump card. Whether ALPA likes Song or any other management action is immaterial. All that matters at this point is whether the pilots realize the devastation they will face if DL declares bankruptcy. I doubt very seriously if they are willing to risk that fate. Nonetheless, we are likely to see a courtyard house steps showdown not unlike what AA went through.

 

[luv2fly]

Hotel,
maybe, maybe not. Either way, management holds the trump card. Whether ALPA likes Song or any other management action is immaterial. All that matters at this point is whether the pilots realize the devastation they will face if DL declares bankruptcy. I doubt very seriously if they are willing to risk that fate. Nonetheless, we are likely to see a courtyard house steps showdown not unlike what AA went through.

[post="166741"][/post]​

Now what does Song have to do with ALPA?
I agree with your assertion that there will be a showdown similar to AA, but please don't doubt for a moment that the pilot group underestimates the seriousness of BK. That is simply foolish.
Jerry needs to present his plan and it needs to be convincing and viable. Something other than we will decimate the pilot contract. A billion dollar concessionary contract alone will not save Delta airlines. You see, Delta has a 20 billion dollar debt to worry about, and to date, Jerry hasn't quite explained how he is going to deal with it. ALPA is not your enemy, and it most certainly is not going to be your savior.

 

[LiveInAHotel]

Now what does Song have to do with ALPA?

[post="166755"][/post]​

ong has nothing to do with ALPA. I said Delta should have not wasted their money to redesign 39, 757 aircraft. It was a waste of money. If they were this broke Song should have been put on the back burner.

 

[RDU Jetblast]

wHEN INDEPENDANT FINANCE COMPANIES' DOWNGRADE STOCK, IT IS NOT A MANAGEMENT PLOY. iT IS PORTFOLIO MANAGERS TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR INVESTORS' MONEY. AT THE END OF THE DAY, A COMPANY IS ONLY WORTH WHAT INVESTORS ARE WILLING TO PAY. THE SITUATION IS OUT OF CONTROL. IF CONTROL IS NOT REGAINED, BK COURT WILL GIVE IT A SHOT. FOLKS, THAT WILL BE PAINFUL!

 

[Vikedog64]

wHEN INDEPENDANT FINANCE COMPANIES' DOWNGRADE STOCK, IT IS NOT A MANAGEMENT PLOY. iT IS PORTFOLIO MANAGERS TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR INVESTORS' MONEY. AT THE END OF THE DAY, A COMPANY IS ONLY WORTH WHAT INVESTORS ARE WILLING TO PAY. THE SITUATION IS OUT OF CONTROL. IF CONTROL IS NOT REGAINED, BK COURT WILL GIVE IT A SHOT. FOLKS, THAT WILL BE PAINFUL!

[post="166925"][/post]​

You are exactly right.