Another Reason #2

[Ken MacTiernan]

Just vote for someone else in the TWU International so this doesn't happen again. OOOHHH!!! That's right, this will happen again under the TWU because YOU CAN'T elect international officers. Thanks to Gary & Gary at Local 565 for fighting for the membership and doing the international's job!


=====================



Back in a meeting at AA HDQ. On September 29th, local 565 (DFW) president Gary Peterson and vice president Gary Schaible were notified that the decision on Outsourcing of 757 heavy C-checks (from Tulsa Overhaul base) to Timco was already made and not open for discussion.


Local 565 (DFW Line) will file 29(d)1 on behalf of the local membership if the TWU International does not file a 29 (d) for the system.


The International did file dispute. The International was forced by a LINE STATION to file a 29 d, but International chose to file grievence at lesser dispute with the Company.


Again, Why did a LINE STATION have to pursue in forcing TWU International to file a grievance?


WHERE IS LOCAL 514 President Sam Cirri & VP Mike McDonald (TULSA Maintenance Overhaul) WHERE THE ACTUAL 757 HEAVY CHECK WERE GETTING OUTSOURCED FROM.


The membership in Tulsa is not even aware of a grievance being filed regarding outsourced work by another Local or International.


Again, Why did a LINE STATION have to pursue in forcing TWU International to file a grievance for Tulsa work?
WHAT DEAL WAS MADE BETWEEN 514 LEADERSHIP & THE COMPANY.


Where is the 514 Leadership regarding the outsourcing?


Sam Cirri- President
Mike McDonald- VP
John Hewitt- Chairman of Maintenance
Tony Bunch-Co-Chair RO Committee
Joe McGill-Chair RO Committee
Dave Corbit-E.B.
Chris Gibson-E.B.
D'Ann Johnson-E.B.
Mary Gormans-Recording Dec.

 

[TWU informer]

There is a simple answer here.

Access Case M-10-1861, read the award and you will see the answer to your questions above.
(Recent Case involving 11 outsourced CFM-56 Engines.)

Based on this case, the TIMCO grievance is lost before it is presented.

In short summation the award clarifiies that ALL AA Management has to before outsourcing work is have "meaningful discussions" with the TWU.

Before outsourcing the 757 Heavy C Checks not only was TWU Local 514 notified and in disucssions, Local 514 also presented an alternative plan via a sub committee put together in Tulsa, but AA Management rejected their proposal.

Basically Ken there is no violation of the Scope Clause regarding the 4 (four) 757 Heavy C checks.
Because AA followed the "Baker Letter", and recent lost outsource geivances has codified the AA Management requirement.

In fact, you really have no scope clause if you want to get down to it.
AND YET, this has never been an issue with the VOTE No crowd.

Those are the facts, not that I like them, but that is where we are at on this issue.

Maybe Bob Owens will access the case, create a PDF and post it here for all to read.

Good luck adding Scope to your already long list of gains needed in negotiations.

These type of issues and arbitration case decisions is why the TWU is left docile and weak. There is no scope language and never really has been.
Therefore the only way to protect your work force is kiss company ass.

After reviewing this case and the decision, tell me once again I am a fool for voting YES on the T/A.

I just want to survive long enough to retire.

The end.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Dave,

"After reviewing this case and the decision, tell me once again I am a fool for voting YES on the T/A.

I just want to survive long enough to retire."




Thanks for the reply. You voted YES for your own reasons. I feel you should have voted NO because the t/a was more concessions and I will not vote YES on any contract that divides and conquers the membership. I too want to retire but I also want to leave a profession others want to enter and continue to raise the bars of professionalism. When I retire I want people like myself and those I work with repairing AA jets.

Even without SCOPE language having the twu will continue to erode our craft.

 

[TWU informer]

Dave,

"After reviewing this case and the decision, tell me once again I am a fool for voting YES on the T/A.

I just want to survive long enough to retire."




Thanks for the reply. You voted YES for your own reasons. I feel you should have voted NO because the t/a was more concessions and I will not vote YES on any contract that divides and conquers the membership. I too want to retire but I also want to leave a profession others want to enter and continue to raise the bars of professionalism. When I retire I want people like myself and those I work with repairing AA jets.

Even without SCOPE language having the twu will continue to erode our craft.

I agree that the erosion of the profession is taking place. It has been happening since deregulation was passed.
And so far, each group that has stepped up to reverse it has been attacked and decimated while everyone else in the industry including other AMT's. Pilots, and Flight Attendants have sit by and watched it happen.

This problem is bigger than one group by themselves can correct, and there is not enough support or enough of those willing to risk what they have to save the other the group from complete destruction.

I just no longer have any vision or belief that this problem will be fixed.

I respect those that still seek and desire, but even within our own work group we are divided and have different needs. Cannot even unify the work group much less everyone on the property or in the industry.

Good luck, but I no longer believe changing unions will solve a damn thing as long as society and airline employees in general are willing to sit back and watch one group take the shaft as long as they might reap some gain from the suffering of others.

The way I see it, some still hold onto to hope because hope is all they have. I no longer even have hope that this will be corrected.

Just look to the protestors of the occupy group. We should have all hit the street when they started pepper spraying and arresting those that are tired of the way things are.
But we all sit at our televisions watching it happen, very similar to the way it will go within this industry.

In other words, you should be commended for having concern for others, but most of those you have concern for will stab you in the back and shaft you for personal gain without hestitation even after you have helped them. Sorry that is just the way I see the truth, and no longer have that vision of a real unionized work force, regardless of Constitution or voting on International Officers.

But the answer to your questions about the 757 TIMCO outsource and why there is a lack of a fight, is all within the documents regarding CFM-56 Engine Outsource, Landing Gear Outsource, and Boiler Room work outsource. All from TWU Local 514 trying to save work, but finding the contract language doesn't support the greivances filed. In my opinion you will see much more of this in the future and we will all wish that SCOPE language was as important as Changing Unions, or GEO Pay, or really ANY other meaningful endeavor. We are not even focused on our biggest threat because we are too busy wanting individual gains, wanting to puinish management for taking bonus awards while mismanaging the company, and blaming each other for what is happening.

Reminds me of an Ant Hill that has just been kicked over or hit with a lawn mower. Except the ANTS work together to quickly rebuild for the survival of everyone, where humans are not that smart. We do have that within us when a disaster hits, but once the chaos is reduced, we all go right back to "I've got Mine, Brother". Or at least "I want Mine, at your expense, Brother". Doesn't take long reading the post from the line AMT blaming the Overhaul AMT to figure this out.

I predict more outsourcing of Overhaul work, gradual but quick reduction of Overhaul Headcount by next negotiations, and once Line AMT is the majority, although you perosnally might vote NO, when AA offers $45-$50 per hour to the Line AMT and all he has to do is allow my job to go overseas. I wont be blaming the Constitution, the International, or some Politician, I will know exactly what took place and who and what is to blame. Nothing I can do but ride and survive. This game is not new. Ask those in the Steel Industry, Auto Industry, Electronic Manufacturing, ect. ect. ect.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Ken,

You abandoned Local 565, abandoned DFW, then went back to SAN with your tail between your legs....lol

 

[TWU informer]

Ken,

You abandoned Local 565, abandoned DFW, then went back to SAN with your tail between your legs....lol

What exactly is your point and what does it have to do with the topic?
What are you doing to inform the membership that we have major issue with our scope language and our jobs might be in jeopardy?
Or are you OK with our only defense is to kiss company ass?

 

[High Speed Steel]

What exactly is your point and what does it have to do with the topic?
What are you doing to inform the membership that we have major issue with our scope language and our jobs might be in jeopardy?
Or are you OK with our only defense is to kiss company ass?

I have been, and with some prodding could be, placed within a position to address the problems you raise. How about you Informer? Care to offer your assistance? Could at times use some help....

 

[TWU informer]

I have been, and with some prodding could be, placed within a position to address the problems you raise. How about you Informer? Care to offer your assistance? Could at times use some help....

Well, I have been around long enough to learn not to blindly commit to anything. I would be interested in hearing your plan, what exactly you need in the form of assistance, and then would evaluate if I could spend the time to help out. Please forgive me, last time I blindly agreed to help someone, I was asked to make political signs and sign a petition. not much interested in wasting anymore time or effort along those lines.

 

[Buck]

I have been, and with some prodding could be, placed within a position to address the problems you raise. How about you Informer? Care to offer your assistance? Could at times use some help....

Prod, Prod, Prod...........

Do you want cash or just an International Position ? Isn't that how it is done?

 

[Overspeed]

I have been, and with some prodding could be, placed within a position to address the problems you raise. How about you Informer? Care to offer your assistance? Could at times use some help....

If the TWU was "eroding the craft" as Ken says then why does AA currently have 90% of it's work in-house? UA, DL, Southwest, US, and AS have almost all their airframe overhaul outsourced. It seems the eroding of the "craft" was done by someone else, not the TWU.

Ken's "solution" is a new union. That's not a solution, that's a fantasy.

A solution would be to start pressuring the regulators to stop giving all these BS MRO's a free pass on inspections. Start organizing these non-union companies so they make the same money and benefits as our people. Why bring our overhaul guys down to their wages, instead bring them up.

 

[Overspeed]

There is a simple answer here.

Access Case M-10-1861, read the award and you will see the answer to your questions above.
(Recent Case involving 11 outsourced CFM-56 Engines.)

Based on this case, the TIMCO grievance is lost before it is presented.

In short summation the award clarifiies that ALL AA Management has to before outsourcing work is have "meaningful discussions" with the TWU.

Before outsourcing the 757 Heavy C Checks not only was TWU Local 514 notified and in disucssions, Local 514 also presented an alternative plan via a sub committee put together in Tulsa, but AA Management rejected their proposal.

Basically Ken there is no violation of the Scope Clause regarding the 4 (four) 757 Heavy C checks.
Because AA followed the "Baker Letter", and recent lost outsource geivances has codified the AA Management requirement.

In fact, you really have no scope clause if you want to get down to it.
AND YET, this has never been an issue with the VOTE No crowd.

Those are the facts, not that I like them, but that is where we are at on this issue.

Maybe Bob Owens will access the case, create a PDF and post it here for all to read.

Good luck adding Scope to your already long list of gains needed in negotiations.

These type of issues and arbitration case decisions is why the TWU is left docile and weak. There is no scope language and never really has been.
Therefore the only way to protect your work force is kiss company ass.

After reviewing this case and the decision, tell me once again I am a fool for voting YES on the T/A.

I just want to survive long enough to retire.

The end.

They did file a grievance and legal said it was not a major dispute so no court action is warranted. Go drink another AMP energy drink.

 

[TWU informer]

They did file a grievance and legal said it was not a major dispute so no court action is warranted. Go drink another AMP energy drink.

Let me know when the arbitration decision is handed down. If won, you might have something worth tooting your horn about.
My bet is you quietly go back to kissing company ass to save your job.
Most real unions would file the court action and let a judge decide if it is major or minor.
If for no other reason than to show a willingness to fight.
But not the TWU, instead we probably have another lobbyist we call an attorney who allowed the contract language to be so weak to begin with and TWU will lose this one too.

Go Drink more profession killing Kool-Aid

 

[TWU informer]

If the TWU was "eroding the craft" as Ken says then why does AA currently have 90% of it's work in-house? UA, DL, Southwest, US, and AS have almost all their airframe overhaul outsourced. It seems the eroding of the "craft" was done by someone else, not the TWU.

Ken's "solution" is a new union. That's not a solution, that's a fantasy.

A solution would be to start pressuring the regulators to stop giving all these BS MRO's a free pass on inspections. Start organizing these non-union companies so they make the same money and benefits as our people. Why bring our overhaul guys down to their wages, instead bring them up.

#1 eroding of the craft with B-scale, SRP, loss of benefits is why most work is in-house.
Once you erode the pay and benefits to beat the MRO it's easy to keep in-house.

#2 we give plenty to the AFL-CIO, why haven't they pressured the regulators and organized the MRO's?
Seems you readily admit the current strategy we rely upon is failing.

Bringing overhaul wages down has been the TWU strategy for over 20 years now. All the while paying into the AFL-CIO.
So you need to direct your last questions in that direction instead of to the rest of us dues payers hoping for sound union leadership.

Can you even see the flaw within your own union that has failed to accomplish your list of common sense ideas?
Or is it Ken's fault? I have not been paying Ken 2 hours pay per month for 28 years to get done what you are describing.

Who exactly do you think should pressure the regulators and organize the MRO's?
We could just keep spending our dues money on Big Splash, Talons Tickets, Oilers Tickets, Halloween Parties, and other non-germane BS and then post on a bulletin board that something like organizing and pressuring should be taking place instead. OMG you're killing me.

 

[Vortilon]

#1 eroding of the craft with B-scale, SRP, loss of benefits is why most work is in-house.
Once you erode the pay and benefits to beat the MRO it's easy to keep in-house.

#2 we give plenty to the AFL-CIO, why haven't they pressured the regulators and organized the MRO's?
Seems you readily admit the current strategy we rely upon is failing.

Bringing overhaul wages down has been the TWU strategy for over 20 years now. All the while paying into the AFL-CIO.
So you need to direct your last questions in that direction instead of to the rest of us dues payers hoping for sound union leadership.

Can you even see the flaw within your own union that has failed to accomplish your list of common sense ideas?
Or is it Ken's fault? I have not been paying Ken 2 hours pay per month for 28 years to get done what you are describing.

Who exactly do you think should pressure the regulators and organize the MRO's?
We could just keep spending our dues money on Big Splash, Talons Tickets, Oilers Tickets, Halloween Parties, and other non-germane BS and then post on a bulletin board that something like organizing and pressuring should be taking place instead. OMG you're killing me.

I will second that statement as well.

 

[Rogallo]

#1 eroding of the craft with B-scale, SRP, loss of benefits is why most work is in-house.
Once you erode the pay and benefits to beat the MRO it's easy to keep in-house.

Bringing overhaul wages down has been the TWU strategy for over 20 years now. All the while paying into the AFL-CIO.
So you need to direct your last questions in that direction instead of to the rest of us dues payers hoping for sound union leadership.

Thanks to everyone who has voted yes to every concessionary contract since 1983 :huh: :huh: